Concerned about my beardie ignorance.

[Fatehand]

Let me start by introducing myself, I am 19 years old and living in North Carolina.

Ive been working at a local pet store for about a year now, however... In the dog and cat department. I am working towards a veterinary degree and I have ran into a little complication.

A customer came into our store late at night just before closing three days ago. He was moving away and needed a new home for his approx 3 month old bearded dragon. We have a quite extensive Reptile department in our store but we had just gotten some new additions that same day and did not have room for it, our reptile manager took it in anyway planning to keep it for himself.

He noticed that I was taking a big intrest in it and decided to give it to me and helped me pick out all the needed supplies to setup this little guy / gal with me.

I got a 20 gallon tank (the beardie is approx 2-2.5 inches long without its tail.), Calcium sand as its bedding, a water and greenies dish, aswell as a heat pad for one side of the tank and a clamped heat lamp. Since then I have gotten him some slate rock that ive propped up under the basking lamp for him to perch and a custom made hiding rock.

OK, So I stepped back and observed my beardie in his new habitat, I thought I was set, I thought I would sit back, take care of him and watch him grow into adult hood. However I started doing some off research on the internet about beardies and found out I was doing several things wrong! The tank size that I have (20 gal) I found out will only be suitable for him for about another month and I will need to upgrade him into a 55 gallon atleast! apparently the calcium sand can cause "impaction" with the lizards stomach and shouldnt be used. ASWELL as me being told only to feed him a dozen crickets a week, im reading some people are feeding 30-50 a day to their young lizards!

Naturally this made me worry out of my mind about my newest addition to my animal family.

Now I consider myself someone that is very knowledgeable about animals large and small. but obviously im being proved wrong in the reptile department. Put a dog or cat infront of me? I could tell you anything you like. but now this little lizard and im apparently doing everything all wrong.

So naturally this got me worried any I started thinking of just trying to find him a new home atleast until im more educated on the subject, but im sticking it out. and ive resorted to this site, ive looked around and most people here seem to be great with these little lizards.

Im looking for anyone that can take a moment with me and just give me a CRASH COURSE on what im doing wrong here.

As far as General habitat, feeding, lighting, heat, and just overall care.

Right now I think hes content, but I fear in the near future problems will start to arise.

Budget is not a problem, throw whatever you like at me, I do after-all have a discount at a pet store

Any help AT ALL is incredibly appreciated

Thank you in advance.

 

[beardie parents]

I suggest getting a 40 breeder tank. They are 36 inches long, 18 inches wide and in the vicinity of 16 or 17 inches tall.

Get rid of the calcisand. Babies shouldn't be in a loose substrate because they tend to lick more than adults do and when they lick the loose substrate, it gets into their stomachs and, especially the calcisand, will cause impaction and, if left untreated, will lead to death.

http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html
This page will help you pick good and sort-of good greens for your baby to eat. At his age, tho he'll probably eat more live feeders, crickets, phoenix worms and maybe later butterworms, hornworms and superworms.

Just make sure you don't use crickets that are larger than the space between his eyes. You'll do fine, the longer you have him the more you'll learn about him.

Be warned, however: they are like lays potato chips, no one can have just one.

 

[Fatehand]

What would you suggest for a babys substrate?

I have observed him eating the mustard greens that I give him, my store gets them for free from the grocery store next-door to us.

Im feeding him about 3-4 crickets a day and he has mustard greens available at all times.

 

[fresnowitte]

Hello & Welcome to BD.org!


Look forward in seeing pic's of your new family member. :wink:

I'm not sure what all questions that you have but I can tell you that the UVB/lighting, temps and thermometer, and diet/hydration are the most important things to read up on.

With beardies it is best to use a non particle substrate. There are several choices I like tiles and non adhesive linoleum...though I also have repti-carpet in Zak-n-Wheezie's.
Paper towels, non adhesive self-liner, paper......are a few that I use with baby or young juvies.

Again Welcome Aboard!

 

[Fatehand]

Thank you for the welcome and I will definitely get some pics of him up when I can, hopefully that might actually help diagnose some questions I have.

I actually dont.....have....a UVB lamp... I only have the one heat lamp that is hung over his perching rock and a heating pad under the hot side of his tank.

Im guessing this is a huge problem, so ill more then likely run over to the shop 2marrow and pick something up.

 

[peera]

Actually, a baby can eat up to a hundred crickets every day... Footing the feeding bill for these guys when they're young is not for the faint of heart. You should allow your little one to eat as many crickets as he wants 2-3x a day for 15 minutes at a time. 3-4 is nowhere even close to enough... How would you feel if you had an apple to tide you over the whole day? They do a lot of growing this first year, and need lots of protein to do that.
Suitable substrates include- Tile (most people like slate, but anything with texture will work), paper towels, newspaper, or repti-carpet. An adult can be kept on playsand like you would use in a sandbox, but never calci-sand.
Reading over, you don't mention a UVB light. Do you have one? It's vital to their health, otherwise he will get MBD because he won't be able to process calcium. You want the ReptiSUN 10.0 florescent tube.
How are you taking your temps? Geting the right gradiant is very important, and most pet store thermometers aren't very reliable. You want a digital with a probe so you can measure the temps on both sides of the tank at once.
Lose the heat pad... They can't really feel heat from underneath and can be badly burned.
Ok, I have to go because my baby's crying, but if you could answer some more questions we can help you out better.


How close can your dragon get to the UVB if you have one?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?

**Edit** Ok, I see you don't have a UVB... The ReptiSun is much, much cheaper online at petmountain.com than in pet stores (when you can even find it... a lot of stores don't carry it because it's more expensive so people who don't know better don't buy it), and it's better for you to not have anything while you wait for it to be delivered than to have a inferior UVB light, the bad ones can do a lot of damage in a very short time.

 

[Fatehand]

I cant tell you how much I wish I was more educated on these guys before this customer dropped this little tyke off on our store doorstep -_-

Im NOT taking temps at all, I will start that immediately though.

I have a 150 watt basking lamp on his cage lid, under his basking slate.

We gutload our crickets at the store before customers buy them.

I do NOT use calcium supplements for him, should I start? what brand please? I think we have several at the shop.

I do lightly spray his head as I was told by another friend of mine because then the water drops directly to their mouth.

But he does have a water dish in his tank at all times (is it bad to have it in there at all times?)

Also, I should be using a leveled tile floor for him? I thought they were semi burrowing animals and liked to dig small burrows for themselves.

Thanks for all the help

 

[jortiz9758]

Hi and Welcome. In response to your question about the level floor in my opinion it is best. You can always give him a log or something for him to climb up on so he can bask and get close to his UVB light. I also read on your first post that you have a 20 gallon tank and a 150 watt light for him. His temps should be about 110 on the hot side and 80-85 0n the cool side. Make sure you are not cooking him with that 150 watt bulb in such a small tank.

 

[CEHSTJ]

Hello,

I am glad to hear that you decided to keep the baby dragon! Once your set up is correct you will be able to enjoy your newest member to your family. Here are a few suggestions that I have learned from this site (we had to change probably 80% of our vivarium due to incorrect advice from the pet store).

Substrate - paper towel, shelf lining paper, or tiles - eg. slate that will help file their nails - NO Loose substrate - especially for babies (some people have used them with no problems, but why set up your baby for potential danger or even death

Vivarium size - 20 gal is alright for babies until they are 10 - 12 inches, then a minimum of a 40 gal breeder tank is required (NEVER house beardies together it is the same as the substrate - some people have no problems, but why take the risk of a tail nip or missing limbs - or death)

Lighting - beardies need both UVB and UVA rays for optimum health. you can use a Mercury Vapour Bulb (MVB) which covers both heating (basking) and UVB/A rays in one bulb. We use this light and you have to really play with it at first so that the 20 gal tank does not get too hot and that the dragon can bask within 12 inches of the light (different bulbs require different distance away from the basking area). Another bulb that is good is the ReptiSun 10 tube (NEVER COIL bulbs as they can lead to severe eye damage and poor UV absorption - the beardies then lack proper vitamins) These tubes need to be placed 6 - 8 inches away from the basking spot along with a bright white light (can be a household light bulb - try different watts to see what gives you the best temperature ie. 75 watts or maybe 100 watts) to minimize the harsh glare from the tube and to give off heat. One of the benefits of using a MVB over a tube is that they only need to be replaced once a year, where the tubes need to be replaced every 6 months even if they are still producing light, they will not have enough UV rays emitted to benefit the dragon.

Temperature - this can be tricky at first. First thing though is to get either a digital thermometer with a probe (around $12-15 at Walmart in the household section) or a temperature gun to take the temperatures. If the temps are too low they won't be able to digest their food properly. Basking site for a baby should be between 105 - 110 degrees F. The ambient temperature should be in the 90's and the cool side should be around 80 - 85 degrees F. Night time temperature should not go below 65 degrees, is this occurs you could invest in a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) which offers heat without light. Dragons do not need light at night and the coloured bulbs aggrevate them when they are trying to sleep. If the temperature is too hot the dragon will become dehydrated fast. Do not use the stick on thermometers as they can be off by 20 degrees or more. Same for the strip ones that get placed on the tank. Lights should be on for a 14/10 cycle - I know that this changes with the seasons (also depends where you live) - perhaps someone could give more details about this (I will research as well).

Water - most bearded dragons don't drink from a water dish and it is best not to have one in the tank - for one the baby could fall asleep with it's head in the water and drown and also it will increase the humidity in the tank (which should not be above 40%. 20-35% humidity is better) The best way to get the dragons to be hydrated is to give them a bath - babies can be bathes every day and adults three times a week or four. They absorb water through their vent (where they eliminate waste). 15 - 20 minutes in a luke warm bath (such as for human babies) with the water only up to it's armpits. Never leave dragons alone while bathing. You can also mist the dragon (outside of it's tank) or use a plastic eye dropper or syringe to drop water on it's nose to drink.

Food - offer greens and other veggies fruit daily (check out the website posted in the message above this one) babies are not usually interested but they will become so when they are adults. You can spray the veggies with extra water to get more fluids in the dragon. The veggies should be cut into small pieces - maybe the size between it's eyes, no bigger. Babies eat about 80% protein and 20% vegetables - this reverses once the dragon becomes an adult. Pheonix worms are a good staple for dragons as they are high is calcium. You can feed them crickets (no bigger than the space between it's eyes), also silkworms, hornworms (once they are bigger), superworms (as an adult) wax worms (these are like candy to them) and different types of roaches (check out other thread on here about roaches). Once again, some people feed their dragons mealworms, but they have been shown to cause impaction some times - not worth the risk - they are not to good for nutrition either. If your baby doesn't seem to be eating baby food (squash, mixed vegetables and chicken or turkey= stage one) in a syringe watered down with apple juice (no sugar added). It may be easiest to feed your dragon in a separate container as crickets will chew on the dragon if they are left in there uneaten. Babies should be offered veggies in their tank until they become to dry and dehydrated (about half a day) (same for adults as well). You will need to "dust" vitamins on one of the daily feedings (I'll get to that in a moment). Babies usually eat three times a day being offered as much as they will eat in a ten to fifteen minute period. Our baby would only eat about ten crickets a day for the first couple of weeks after we got him (Smaug), maybe due to relocation stress. He now eats about 20 - 40 depending on whether he is shedding or not. I have read that some eat around 100 a day - we are not there yet. Most of the feeders need to be "gut loaded" with vegetables and either a recipe from online or a commercially bought one - this ensures the dragon will be getting the nutrients it needs. After your dragon eats make sure it sits and basks to allow the food to digest. Also, do not feed your dragon two hours before lights out - the undigested food can rot in their stomachs.

Vitamins - dragons need a calcium (eg. RepCal calcium) supplement and also a multivitamin (eg. Reptivit). If you are using a MVB hen you will need to purchase calcium WITHOUT D3 and without phosphorus. If you are using a tube (ReptiSun 10) then calcium with D3 (still without phosphorus) is required. So, feeders need to be dusted (in a plastic bag or container) with calcium at one daily feeding five times a week for baby dragons (3 times a week for adults) and the multivitamin needs to be dusted at one feeding twice a week for babies (once for adults).

Wow! Sorry for rambling on and on. Hmmm ... other info -dragons can suffer from relocation stress and may take a couple of weeks to adjust - don't worry. Also do not use heating pads or rocks as dragons cannot measure the temperature with their bellies,but do so with their "3rd" eye on their head. There have been reports of severe burns using these products. Dragons need a place to hide in their tank and something to climb on to bask. If you go to the closure posting section there are many pictures (not all are correct though) to give you a better idea for it's tank. I am getting out of breath typing all of this (lol) and think that is all for now. I will post more if I think of things and I am sure others will as well.

Congrats on your new beardie and welcome to bd.org!

Best wishes to you and your baby!

Cheryl

 

[Fatehand]

Wow thank you a TON for the information you guys are very helpful!

I guess I will have to make a shopping trip 2marrow and pick up several dozen crickets for this little guy.

I get all my reptile advice from my reptile manager at the shop but he also told me to keep my adult beardie in a 20 gal tank and didnt even sell me a UVB when he was setting me up, Ill have to ask him tomarrow.

Thank you again for all your help. maybe this little guy will be better off then I thought

 

[jortiz9758]

WOW..Cheryl....u are da man! (woman :mrgreen: )....Tons of info in that post...Props to you!

 

[Fatehand]

Id like to look into getting a slate flooring for his tank....but I wouldnt know where to get it.

Can I get a custom piece of slate thats made for reptile cages? ill have to look into it.

 

[fresnowitte]

Excellent reply Cheryl! :headbang:

Fatehand I purchased my slate tiles at OSH it was much cheaper than Home Depot or Lowes...I paid $19.99 for 10 tiles.
Also another option for thermometer would be an infrared temp gun if you don't wish to have wires in you enclosure. If you have a Harbor Freight in your area they sell them for $9.99 which is a great deal.

 

[Lovethelife07]

stay away from sand period.
at least until he/she is a year old
causes impaction...and death so please please stay away from it
most pet stores use it but its just horrible...

 

[Seven65]

Welcome, you came to the right place : ] It's good to see there will soon be at least one pet store employee who can properly care for a beareded dragon : P You can do a lot of good in your situation.