Collared greens not the best staple?

[herpgirl2510]

I am on another site and I am being told that collared greens are not the best staple. I am being told they contain goitrogens which can cause hyperthyroidism which can lead to rapid weight gain. I have always heard they make a great staple and on the beautiful dragons nutrition guide they say they make a great staple. Does anyone have any input I am pretty confused.

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

Not true. Firstly, I should point out that it is not scientifically correct to say that a food contains goitrogens. Not that the wording matters very much, but this shows a lack of understanding from whomever told you that. All cruciferous vegetables are goitrogenic foods, however, most of them are not highly goitrogenic, and collard greens certainly are not. Goitrogenic foods DO NOT cause hyperthyroidism. Collards can be eaten daily without any impact at all on healthy thyroid function on a healthy dragon. Now, if you had a dragon with existing thyroid problems, that is when you should stay away from goitrogenic foods. In special circumstances, mainly in unhealthy animals, it could potentially become a problem.

Collards do have fairly moderate oxalates, and a fairly high oxalate:calcium ratio, and I would me more worried about that than goitrogens. There really is no BEST staple. The key is always variety. If I had to pick one veggie to call the best staple, I would probably go with Turnip Greens (a bit of squash mixed in makes them even better). Mustard Greens would be the most highly goitrogenic of the bunch, but still healthy to feed and all make great staples.

 

[herpgirl2510]

Thanks for that info. I have only been keeping beardies for a few years so I still have alot to learn but I had never heard that before. I hope you do not mind if I pass that info on it has some people confused.

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

Not a problem at all.

 

[herpgirl2510]

This link was given to me in that thread what do you think about it
http://thyroid.about.com/od/symptomsrisks/a/All-About-Goitrogens-thyroid.htm
http://www.anapsid.org/iguana/hypothyroidism.html
So far that is the only link I have been given.

 

[kcarello]

Somebody sounds as smart as his wife

 

[Claudiusx]

Somebody sounds as smart as his wife

That was his wife. She was just too lazy to log him out to reply with her own account.

:mrgreen:

-Brandon

 

[kcarello]

Ha ha ha!!!

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

You guys are too funny! :lol:

Lisa, those articles are correct, however, they do not contradict my statement above. Goitrogens do not cause hyperthyroidism (which is an overactive thyroid). Rather, they slow down thyroid activity, however, they still do not CAUSE hypothyroidism either. They can exacerbate a pre-existing thyroid condition and animals with thyroid problems is where you should be careful. The amount of greens that bearded dragons eat are nowhere near as much as an iguana will eat. Overfeeding is where the problem usually lies. Also, notice that collard greens are not on the list of foods with problematic levels of goitrogens in the Anapsid article. They are not highly goitrogenic and are very safe to eat, even daily. You can point them to this article, which unlike the other two, contains references to actual research done on goitrogens.

http://whfoods.org/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=250

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

I should also make the point that collards, mustards, turnips, and bok choy are ALL goitrogenic foods, and are the most common Bearded Dragon staples. If the other forum were correct, we would have A LOT of dragons with goiters and thyroid issues. Over 60 dragons in my care all have healthy thyroid function, and are fed at least one of these on a daily basis. I believe the numbers speak for themselves.

 

[herpgirl2510]

It is one person there is a very experienced keeper of mostly iguanas who strongly disagrees with him. I think I will stick to variety is best and collared greens have worked for a very long time and been successful. I had just never heard that argument before. I am in big trouble with one if my beardies it has been a two year struggle to get him to eat anything but collareds. When I rescued him at two he had only had romaine. I am hoping this season will be different with him. If I want rouse tough love how long can I withhold food. I have made it a week and I give in after a few days he retreats to his corner and acts like he is going to brumate. He reminds me of my oldest child nothing I did worked he is 19 now and still only eats the same five things.

 

[herpgirl2510]

When I say withholding I say only offering other greens and veggies and no feeders or collareds. He is funny whenever I offer these things I come home to salad strewn all over the place he will even poop on it.

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

Tough love doesn't work for everyone. If he is healthy, you can withhold for 2 weeks. I've only had one case of a dragon who didn't eat any greens at all. She is a pet that I adopted last year at 3 years old from someone who housed her with a group of girls, and she just assumed that she was eating her salad. I keep all my girls (pets, breeders, every single dragon) separate. And when I put her in her own home, I realized that she just wouldn't even touch them. All the tough love in the world didn't work for her. Clean fecal, perfectly healthy, no reason not to eat greens, especially a fully grown adult whose diet should be 80% greens. Then in the winter, she brumated, woke up in February, and has been eating her greens every day ever since. Not really sure what my point is, except not to give up. Sometimes, they will fix themselves. But always offer and maybe something will change. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with eating just collards. Variety is ideal, but at least he is eating SOME greens, and that is better than nothing.

 

[herpgirl2510]

I will offer just other greens see what happens this week. Maybe this season will be better.