Coccidia

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Nasirus

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My bearded dragon, Echo, who is roughly a year old now has been diagnosed with a high coccidia count and is going to the veterinarian today to get a prescription. I called them earlier and what they told me is that they intend to put her on TMZ/Flagyl. I've read from a few websites that this shocks their system and needs to be supplemented with products such as soy yogurt and Acidophiliz+. Another website I read suggested that this particular medication is an appetite stimulant-- which leaves me rather confused on what to believe. This is my first bearded dragon-- the first time ever dealing with parasites-- and I have no idea how to go about disinfecting her tank.

I read that a 10% ammonia solution will kill coccidia. Should I use this instead of bleach? I intend to throw out the wood in there as I didn't intend to keep it in the first place. She also has a rope hammock. Will soaking this in ammonia be able to clean all the porous areas?

This whole situation feels extremely overwhelming. I've done everything possible to take care of her. From rotating a variety of staple greens and other foods every week, to mounting her Repti-sun 10.0 inside the tank with her. I even tiled the entire enclosure which I'll now have to rip up and disinfect underneath. Crickets were getting beneath one of the corners anyway, but still. I did rearrange her viv a few times, so perhaps the consistent change may have stressed her out. Again, this is my first reptile and it was a lot of learning along the way. I raised her from a baby and had no idea how big a part stress can be for them. She was very intent on biting when she was young but grew out of it. The only thing I can think of that would have bloomed her coccidia counts is a few months back when she somehow broke one of her teeth. It grew back but she had a pitch black beard for an entire day afterwards. I've never seen her do that since.

She has a voracious appetite for both her greens and her crickets, is always bright eyed and alert and basks frequently. I used a cheap probe to test her temperature and her basking bulb is right at 100 degrees and her cool side at 85. The thing that scares me the most is the horror stories about these types of medications; how they completely destroy their appetite. I understand using Acidophiliz+ can help with that by providing good gut flora after the meds wipe it all out, but I have two major concerns:

She does not often lick anything from my fingers, not even water. I have to bathe her to hydrate her, but she usually gets most of her water content from her greens. I'm worried that if I try to get her soy yogurt and put it on her snout, she won't even try to eat that. And on top of this, reducing her tank to disposable cardboard and paper towels for cleanliness purposes may stress her out even more. I have researched this obsessively since she was diagnosed and would be extremely appreciative of anyone who could provide any help or advice. Thank you.

I would also like to know how exactly I would administer the soy yogurt. Do I just put it on her snout and let her lap it up?
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there.....did the vet say what count the coccidia is ? Like a + 2 or 3 ? If the counts aren't high you may just skip treatment. I will say off the bat that the fact that she's healthy + eating well is great :) Even if she does lose her appetite a bit, it shouldn't affect her for too long.

I am wondering why the vet is using Flagyl ? That's usually for pinworms....the best med. for coccidia is Baycox [ Ponazuril or Toltrazuril] Either of these can usually , from what I've read , knock out the coccidia in 2-3 doses. You can actually buy it here.... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjHg9Wi14fQAhWl34MKHar-CCUQFggcMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.beardeddragon.co%2Findex.php%3Froute%3Dproduct%2Fproduct%26product_id%3D478&usg=AFQjCNFOOnNBa87RoKeNJUlLPFevthgdag&sig2=9Y_RZKOCEAyAYhy0dUj-oQ

As for cleaning, use the ammonia and either take out the tile or after cleaning it as it lays in the tank, just cover with fresh newspaper daily that can be lifted out as needed. Keep one basking perch that can be quickly disinfected and put back in. The log or a large rock [ get a rock outdoors + wash with hot soapy water ] Leave tha hammock out until she's better.

Your dragon is healthy enough to handle this, so try not to stress too much. She should be fine. :)
 

Nasirus

Member
Original Poster
I did forget to mention the one symptom she has: consistent, runny, mushy stool. The other day she passed just urate. I cannot say for how long this has been going on because normally I soak her in a bath and she goes to the bathroom; everytime she's done this it looks normal. Her greens are often pretty wet when she first eats them, so I thought it might have just been soft for that reason alone. But as a test, I stopped giving her baths so frequently and since then, her poo has just been mush. The last one she passed, before the all-urate one, was more tubular than it has been this entire week.

When she passed mostly urate, she was acting kind of funny then too but that's the only time I've really ever seen her do this; she was on the cool side of her tank with her head down but her eyes were still open and alert.

I'm not sure why they are prescribing Flagyl. It doesn't make sense to me either but I will ask the veterinarian about other options when I go. I'll also get a count on the coccidia.

Here's a fairly recent picture of Echo, just this 25th of October.

http://imgur.com/a/WlXaS

She seems perfectly fine except for her bowel movements.

UPDATE: I just called. They said her count is above 30. So it's pretty high. I'm not sure, but if it's THAT level, shouldn't she be showing more symptoms?
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
They usually multiply the number of eggs they see on the slide....I doubt it's actually 30, it's possibly a 3 which can be on the high side. Are you going to use the meds. from the vet or have you considered the link I gave you ? How long does the vet want her on the meds . ?
 

john21wall

New member
In December last year, my dragon Sid had a fecal examination and was diagnosed with both pinworms and medium to high case of coccidia. My vet prescribed a de-worming medication for the pinworms which I gave him (as directed) for 3 days. But she told me there is no medication available for coccidia in New Zealand. I've looked it up and it sounds like the medications aren't actually so great for them anyway and I might be better off just keeping his enclosure super clean and giving him probiotics (Acidophiliz+ is what I've seen recommended) but unfortunately I haven't been able to get that here either..

My question here is, does anyone know where I can get anything that might help in New Zealand? Or does anyone have any suggestions of other things I can do to help with it or any readily-available products I might be able to use that I'm more likely to find in lil' old NZ?
 

Nasirus

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Original Poster
john21wall":3d2tlfbv said:
In December last year, my dragon Sid had a fecal examination and was diagnosed with both pinworms and medium to high case of coccidia. My vet prescribed a de-worming medication for the pinworms which I gave him (as directed) for 3 days. But she told me there is no medication available for coccidia in New Zealand. I've looked it up and it sounds like the medications aren't actually so great for them anyway and I might be better off just keeping his enclosure super clean and giving him probiotics (Acidophiliz+ is what I've seen recommended) but unfortunately I haven't been able to get that here either..

My question here is, does anyone know where I can get anything that might help in New Zealand? Or does anyone have any suggestions of other things I can do to help with it or any readily-available products I might be able to use that I'm more likely to find in lil' old NZ?

I did look at the link you provided and fully intend to use it if the prescribed medicine does too much harm to her system. Thank you so much! I brought her in yesterday and she was completely healthy other than the high level of coccidia. They prescribed her Sulfatrim Pediatric every day for 3 weeks at 0.25 ml. I have not dosed her yet. I intend to give her a good meal beforehand. When she came home and I gave her her salad, she went right for it! So I really hope this medicine doesn't ruin her appetite. If it does, I'll try a probiotic to help and if it gets worse, I'll stop treatment entirely and try Baycox. I also bought a handheld steam cleaner that heats above 165 degrees. I'm going to completely clean her enclosure with it.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I see lots of owners using the steamers now, that should be a good option as long as you're sure it produces the high heat. The sulfatrim I'm not very familiar with but I think it's the same as Albon ? It's pretty harsh stuff and that's a very long time to be on a sulfa drug. I hope Echo will be O.K.

Is your vet experienced with beardies ?
 

Nasirus

Member
Original Poster
Trust me, I am very worried about this treatment. It is extremely difficult to find reptile vets where I live, as I am in New Hampshire, but I found one that has worked with exotic animals a great deal. I know others have brought their dragons to him before. Here is a link to his credentials:

http://www.i131nh.com/2016-MA-Dutton-CV.pdf

I gave her her first dose today and waited a few hours before giving her more salad. She went over to it and started chomping down almost immediately. I hope that continues throughout the treatment. I found it a bit odd that he said I didn't necessarily need to sterilize the enclosure-- just be mindful of what she pooped on and clean it thoroughly. I also asked about probiotics and he didn't really have a confirmed yes or no as to whether it helps. That information alone does not add up to all the stuff I've read on here, which makes me worry about what he's talking about... but I am trying to take both sides of the coin and see where it takes me. I'll give her probiotic and I'll steam clean her tank to be certain.

I have a lot of pets and am extremely attached to her out of all of them. I hope I can get her through this without too much issue and am at least thankful she did not test positive for any other infection.
 

Nasirus

Member
Original Poster
UPDATE: Things are going pretty well so far. She's had her second dose now, and the moment I put her back in her enclosure she went straight for her salad... so I guess the actual administering of the medicine isn't stressing her out too bad. I'm giving her two baths a day to keep her hydrated. I can't seem to get her to lick water off my finger, though, or to react to it at all. I hope that if she just sticks to eating her greens that those plus the frequent bathing will keep her hydrated while on the sulfa drug. I expect the probiotic to be here by Monday this week. If not, I'll pick up some non-dairy soy yogurt at work. The steam cleaner will be here by Tuesday.
 

Nasirus

Member
Original Poster
It's been day 3 now and she's had her third dose. Still has a voracious appetite, gobbling down crickets like mad. The steam cleaner came today, but I'm slightly concerned. Should I be able to touch the glass the moment after the steam hits it? It doesn't seem very hot. Still, I've removed all of her decorations except for her rope hammock which I intend to just use the cleaner on and potentially dry in the dryer. I'm thinking of taking the tiling out of the tank as well and just putting paper towel down. Still waiting on the probiotic and still giving her a bath every day.
 

Rankins

Gray-bearded Member
Flagyl is a anti flagellate protazoan medication. Its a really common human medication. It does work on coccidia...
Gotta stay very well hydrated on it.
 

Nasirus

Member
Original Poster
Update on Echo. It's her eighth dose of Sulfa-trim today and she's doing spectacularly well! It's not having any lasting effect on her system as she gobbles down her collards every day, even after the actual administering of the medication stresses her out. Same amount of gusto for her crickets, too, which is eager insanity to say the least. Her BMs are on/off in consistency. Since treatment, she's only gone in her tank once. The rest has been in the bath, which I take her out immediately after she goes and then I dry her off and put her back in the tank to wash my hands, then she's out again as I steam it down. A few of her poops haven't had any considerable smell. Today's was pretty bad, but her urate is back to being well formed rather than just a mushy pile of white. She's definitely passing a lot of liquid, which I imagine is the medication/shedding of coccidia. Her BMs are tubular as well, at least in the water. The real test is whether or not she produces a well-formed poop *outside* of her bath.
 

Nasirus

Member
Original Poster
UPDATE: She has another full week on medication. The Sulfatrim hasn't effected her system at all-- in fact she seems much hungrier than before she was put on it. I'm feeling pretty positive towards the next fecal exam. Her poop has become much healthier looking.

GRAPHIC: Here's a comparison to what her poo looked like 2 weeks ago compared to today.

https://imgur.com/a/vX7ph
 
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