Clutch of 8 Hatchlings: Foster Mom needs help saving them.

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Libbedc

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Am so grateful to whoever came up with, and participates in this site. Need help here.

My young neighbor has a beautiful breeding pair of Bearded Dragons who have produced about 5 clutches. Generally she gets the hatchlings to about 2-3 months and then finds good homes for them, avoiding pet stores when possible. However, this year the stores are even full, she's lost her job and has to move and asked if I would tend to her beardies here in my home during the chaos in her life. Hey I know cats, dogs, fish and birds, but these beardies are over my pay grade. I am on Day 3 with 8 5 week old hatchlings and a breeding pair, and have spent every waking hour for all three days reading up and getting supplies for them. Suffice it to say, they've never been under a UVB light, and have been eating maybe once a day, maybe every other day.

Adults are fine, and pops is showing his stuff already in a fifty gallon tank with mom. They're devouring fifteen to twenty large crickets at a pop and eating the greens, fruits and veggies beautifully.

Hatchlings are another issue. They are all small based on what I've seen in the area pet stores. All but 3 were weak, and 3 of the weak were extraordinarily weak. Two of the lessers have turned a corner, ashiness has been replaced by some color and activity and they are holding their heads up. The dominant 4 snarf the 1/4 - 3/8 " crickets pretty readily now, and the weakers will eat them and puliverized greens, fruits and chicken baby food if I plop them down by the feeding plate. But left to their own, the lessers do not seek out the food, nor are they super keen on hand feeding.

Biggest problem is the weakest of the hatchlings, who will eat nothing whatsoever, is still very limp, head down, eyes rarely open, etc. I've tried Zilla's Jump-start supplement, but the tube is far too big. Purchases a syringe sans needle and tried a watery protein/green mixture and he/she simply will not open his/her mouth. I've started misting all of them neck to tail with Four Paws' Vita-spray daily, dusting the crickets with calcium and then misting them with warm water 3 times a day. They are basking under a hundred watt in a reflector with a small heating pad under the forty gallon tank in which they are living. Today, after reading this and other sites, I went out and picked up the only UVB bulbs I could find, which are the screw in coiled tens. There are two of them now in a terrarium top unit that sits on one end of the tank, with the basking light on the other. Two grapevines, one on either end allow them to climb to no closer than 6 inches to the light. Temp on the basking side is running one hundred, and on the UVB side is running around eighty. Today, they have all moved from the basking light to the UVB gradient. Humidity has gone up today to between moderate and tropical only because of the misting, which maybe only the weaker ones need as they are not eating nearly as much as the healthier of the brood.

The colors range from a deep and clear gray brown to pale yellow on the weaker ones. Just a marked and sad difference in them.

I don't know how much I should mess with the weaker ones, I don't want to stress them out, and yet I am so fearful that without adequate nutrition the weakest will only to deteriorate. I would love to be in a position to get the weakest one into the hands of someone who is smarter and more experienced with beardies, but could not find a reptile vet within 45 miles. After checking all the pet stores in the area for live crickets and small waxworms, calcium etc, I was totally unimpressed with them as well! They tried to sell me godzilla and mealworms for the hatchlings.

Help, help, help. I do not want to lose this little fellow on my watch! Should I separate the healthier ones to enable the less strong to eat more? I have one more twenty gallon tank she used for the eggs. Is it okay to mix recently deceased crickets with baby food or fruit/green mush to get the protein into him? What else should I be doing?? Does anyone live near Annapolis, MD who might have a better chance to save this little guy's life? If not, can someone please help me do it?

Thanks.
 

Tigg

Juvie Member
The adults need to be seperated! They should be housed and fed seperately. This is not the time for dominance issues to arise, and having a female that just laid her 5th clutch she is going to need some serious attention as well because it sounds like she has been over bred. You need to make sure both adults have their own basking site, and UVB source in seperate containers. The male will not require any special attention, but the female will need a serious boost in fat, calcium and protein intake after laying a clutch. This can be done by dusting 1 meal a day, 5 days per week with calcium and feeding fatty, nutrishious feeders such as roaches, horned worms, wax worms, pheonix worms, pinky mice ect.

As for the hatchlings. You should try to return the coil UVB bulbs you have as they do not produce suffecient UVB and can be harmful to reptiles. you best bet would be a flourescent tube style Reptisun 10.0. Once you replace these coil bulbs and provide proper UVB you will see an instant difference in them!

You need to keep them well hydrated, you can try very shallow baths, just making sure their vent (cloaca) is submergerged under the water, not much more, especially if they are week.

You can also try dripping water on the tip of their nose and allow them to lick it off.

this can also be done with baby food which willl help get their nourishment up.

There is also very specific temperatures they need to digest and thrive, they need a backing spot of 110*, and a cool end to escape to which needs to be kept around 85* THIS IS VERY VERY IMPORTANT! without the right temps the babies will quickly become lethargic, anerexic, and will die very quickly.

I hope other chime in quickly and cover things I have missed, sorry for rushing this post or sounding harsh, I am in a rush trying to get out of work but I could not resist posting lol
 

Tigg

Juvie Member
Also, better to not feed dead crickets, they usually die for a reason.... you are on the right track with mixing crickets with baby food tho' just make sure you blend them up really well, also add pedialite or gatorade to the mix to help keep them hydrated!

There will be lots of others here to help you through this, I will be back shortly to help as much as I can!
 

Libbedc

Member
Original Poster
Thanks so much. There was one 12 inch ReptiSun but no housings for the bulb. Nonetheless, I'll expand my search tomorrow and try to get better UVBs. Also will separate the adults, so many thanks for that, as I am so concerned about the hatchlings, the female was not an immediate concern. She IS eating voraciously and I will double up on the fat from the waxworms in addition to the cricket proteins. I'll have to order the hornworms and phoenix worms online. Three shops today and noone had anything other than crickets and waxworms. Was dusting twice a day, will reduce to one.

Meanwhile, hatchlings insisting on spending time in the lower gradient. Basking end is now back up over one hundred, will settle them in there for the evening. The two weak hatchlings continue to deteriorate.. ;(
 

Libbedc

Member
Original Poster
We lost the two weak hatchlings last night, one to a 5 second seizure and the other a slow, 4 hour decline in respiratory and pulse until she just couldn't fight any longer. But Lord did she try. Broke my heart. What a preventable tragedy.

I have the Reptisun and hood along with the basking light, gradient is very good on the temps, and while only one took a modest serving of bok choy, cricket and dusted waxworms, the remainder are perking up, raising their heads and keeping their eyes open. If we can maintain an appropriate gradient through the evening, get them another day under the Reptisun, I am prayerful that they will be back on the road to recovery. In the short-term, female is still with male as I need the forty gallon for the hatchlings, but I'm feeding her alone in the tank, which is cutting down significantly on the purple throated dominance from the lusty male. Short term solution until I can get her her own fifty.

So many thanks Tigg, and I am so very sorry to have to report the losses. Obviously found this site too late, and will keep it forever.
 

Libbedc

Member
Original Poster
Just want to report in on the 6 hatchlings [adults Bonnie and Clyde are fine, Bonnie getting lots of extra alone time and loving it.]

Over and over now I have read the questions "What kind of UVB light do you have? What's the temp, distance from basking light, etc. etc "

For any newbies like me who may question the importance of this, I just really, really wish you could have witnessed the turnaround in these 6 hatchlings the last 48 hours! Literally within 4 hours of getting the temp stabilized with a small under tank pad, a basking light and ever, ever, ever so importantly, the RIGHT UVB as recommended and only as recommended -- these little gals and guys perked up, savored their head mistings, chased the crickets, munched on their greens and even carrots. They're okay with mini wax worms, but they love that cricket chase. They are filling out beautifully around their necks again, with healthy stools, basking, moving around and loving bearded life.

It's like a miracle the difference! When people said that we'd see a big difference, I definitely could never have envisioned this much change, this fast. If you are second guessing the bulb recommendations here -- DON'T. Don't waste a second to do whatever it takes to get the right gear to create the healthiest environment for your beardie! We learned the life and death thing oh too painfully! Don't compromise with their lives!

I am soooooooooo furious that pet stores sell the crap, and that we lost a day that might have made a difference in saving two more lives. I am sure that had they stayed in their previous home w/o the UVB they would all be gone soon. But after 6 days of fostering these wonderful hatchlings, they are doing great thanks to this site and the great knowledge and care here!

Many thanks from all of us! We're happy to become site sponsors!
 

beardie parents

BD.org Sicko
I'm sorry about the two losses. I'm glad you found this site in time to save the rest. We sure would love pictures of your new family.

Lori.
 
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