Changing Substrate?

[cutesiepie4ever]

Hi everyone. I am a new owner/lover of two sweet bearded dragon ladies. They were previously owned by my friends who, after having a baby, are unable to spend as much time with them as would be fair. So I now have these lovelies as part of my family!
After reading up on care and upkeep of BDs I have noticed that there are many owners who discuss how bad walnut substrate is and how it can cause impactions. This definitely worries me because Sam and Taz have been living in the walnut substrate for a long time. Both BDs are healthy, happy and calm. But because of all of the potential problems with the walnut stuff, I'm thinking it would be a good idea to switch to another substrate. My question is, because they are used to this in their habitat, would it be a shock to their system for a change to occur? Is there a good way to switch over to another format, or a certain substrate that would be easier for them to handle if I switched them over? Since they are used to this substrate (and I have seen them licking at it) should I continue to keep it in there, because they may like it?
Any answers and help would definitely be accepted, as well as any advice for a new adoptive mommy.
Thanks!!

 

[Claudiusx]

You should definitely change it ASAP.

Even just putting down papertowels until you can get something more permanent would be best. I would go with tile.

Now, they might suffer a little bit of a relocation stress by moving to a new substrate such as tile, but they should get over it very fast and get used to it. It is much better for them to go through this change than to have to deal with problems associated with loose substrates.

-Brandon

 

[jjh1]

Please get rid of it as soon as you can its aweful stuff and shouldnt be used in a viv at all.

Alternatives are tile (slate or a rough tile) natural in trimming nails. Shelf liner lino not the shelf sticking stuff, paper towel repticarpet,
rep-tiles, newspaper.
Dont use sand playground sand nothing loose it does cause impaction.

Also beardies like their own space even in they are from the same clutch ie brother sister sister sister but they are territorial so when they get older they sometimes will become dominant over one another, meaning that they fight for the best basking the better food and so forth, please watch that carefully, or if one sits on the other it may look cute but it shows dominance, this does cause stress in the beardie which in turn makes the beardie not get the basking or nourishment that it needs. Sometimes and in alot of cases people including myself recommend
1 beardie 1 viv, makes life so much easier.
All 3 of my beardies 1 male 2 females are in 3 separate vivs. No fights everyone gets spoilt all get attention no fights lol
That part was just an fyi lol

Welcome to the group and being a new Beardie Mommie yay

Please post some pictures when you can of your new babies

Joanne

 

[Arawood]

I agree with all the above! I have tile and my beardies seemed to like it when I switched over from reptile carpet. I believe its also the easiest to clean and lasts forever

 

[cutesiepie4ever]

Thanks for your responses!!
I see that these BDs like to run around in their "sand" and almost bury a bit in it. I'm a little worried that they would miss the sand-type of texture and that if I replaced it with something flatter that it might hurt their claws or legs. Do you think these could be a problem if I switched substrates?

 

[Arawood]

My beardies love to run around on the tile and theyve never had any nail issues or anything although I never had the same substrate you have now. Sometimes they even look like their digging, and who knows, maybe they actually think they are digging through the tile! :lol:

 

[jjh1]

Thanks for your responses!!
I see that these BDs like to run around in their "sand" and almost bury a bit in it. I'm a little worried that they would miss the sand-type of texture and that if I replaced it with something flatter that it might hurt their claws or legs. Do you think these could be a problem if I switched substrates?

Well what you could do is change to tile or shelf paper and make a little sand box for them to dig in... I made a little one in my female's viv she loves to just sit in it on the cool side. Made it from cutting down a cerel box taped it at the ends got some washed childrens playground sand , But you have to make sure you sift it change it every week because if they poop in it which my female doesnt poop in her viv only in the tub it smells and can hold bacteria even after you clean it.

But thats what I do lol....

Joanne

 

[dadecitydragons]

i use the Reptilite which is "An all natural calcium substrate, ideal for true chameleons, or any tortoise, snake, lizard, arachnid, or insect that comes from an arid environment. The naturally spherical grains won’t scratch your valuable animals inside or out! There are no artificial dyes or chemicals in Reptilite™. This low impact substrate also contains strontium and magnesium while being free of silica and phosphates. Though not intended as a food source or supplement, it is 100% edible and easily digestible. In fact, Reptilite™ is made of aragonite, the most soluble form of calcium carbonate available. Allowing reptiles to easily ingest necessary calcium for proper bone development. Reptilite™ also contains naturally occurring strontium, which recent research indicates may increase bone density." - Copied from Blue Iguana a Div of Carbi-Sea, Inc...

I never have had any impaction issues with it and my two petshop rescues are kept on it and if i try paper towels or tiles they will not come off thier wood decorations at all and crickets wont even entice them to come off the wood either... the vet i take my reptiles too recommended it and they love it... the juvies go once a month for check ups and never any sign of possible impacting when they do the usual x-rays to make sure thier bones are growing correctly... Thank god my brother is an all species vet lol... (i get all the animals examines for free lol not to brag)....

 

[Hydr1]

I understand the concern of the veteran board members here and that there have been problems with bearded dragons being impacted, but I agree with the op and the last statement that the dragons love the calcium sand. My beardie loves to dig and burrow in the sand. Ive never seen him eat any of it. He is very precise when he grabs crickets and he only eats his greens from a dish. I understand that there have been problems with some dragons living in loose substrate, but these dragons have been living healthy in a sub for this long says something. Seems the members here are almost cult like about the substrate issue. As long as a caretaker has been informed of the dangers, how to identify impaction and how to avoid it, you guys are doing your job. At the end of the day its the caretakers choice though and if thier beardies are healthy and happy then they have the choice to use whatever sub they want. A beardie could chew up a grout/foam DIY rock fixture just as easily as it could eat a handfull of sand. These little guys are smarter than you give them credit for sometimes.

Sorry to be a non conformist, but i doubt Ill be starting a ER thread about impaction and reptile sand. More so than anything, i think alot of these multi lizard owners choose to use tile because its healthier to maintain when you have to care for adult dragons and babies and your breeding.

 

[jewl495]

It is the caregivers choice but the recommendations go beyond impaction. :wink: Loose substrate harbors bacteria and can cause breathing issues later in life. Its not healthy for a human or animal to constantly breathe in small dust particals. My brother inlaw works for procter and gamble where they produce metimusil. The workers that work directly with the packaging of the product are required to wear respirators. So if our reptiles are walking around on items that constantly produce fine dust particles then it probably safe to assume it eventually cause damage to their lungs.

I wouldn't call the recommendations cult like just trying to be responsible. It would be wrong to recommend something that may cause harm. At this point the substrates recommended cause the least/possibly no harm to our beardies health. I have also thought about putting in a small sand box for burrowing but I haven't yet. It all boils down to personal choice after doing all your research.

 

[fresnowitte]

Please, please do some more research about the calcium sand. Calcium sand is right there with crushed walnut shell as for the 2 worse substrates.

The crushed walnut can actually cause cuts in your beardies digestive system(I have experience with this). Oh and have you ever bitten down on a piece of walnut shell...pretty hard huh?

An as for the calcium sand it clumps up like some of the clumping cat litters in your beardies stomach...an I will never understand why they would even produce such a item... as beardies do not absorb the calcium in this way through their skin. It stinks as well... :bleick:

I speak to you out of experience not trying to be critical of how you do it as Julie stated it's really the owners choice. An it's not just impaction that's an issue, that's just one of the things that could happen using particle substrates. Let me just say it the way someone said it to me once upon a time..."Like a litter box ."
If you beardies are pooping in their enclosure there is absolutely no way to get all the bacteria out when you scoop their poops. It's a breeding ground for parasites. Think about when you change out your substrate...the dried puddles at the bottom. I use to use particle substrate an I thought my viv's were very clean...nope everyone ended up needing treatment for parasites...since changing off the particle substrate 4 years ago...I have only needed to treat one of my 12+ beardies for parasites and that's because she came from the store that way. Not that anyone is asking my opinion, but it is so well worth it to use non particle for this alone. Plus there's no smell, no dust, and no poopy substrate to dispose of once you get it out. Nor do you have to spend that money on substrate every 30 days. It was odd getting use to seeing the viv's without the particle substrate at first. But that was short lived since the pros out weighed the cons. It's so much easier, healthier, and my beardies got buff when they started walking around on the harder surface. Not to mention no longer had to worry about the over grown nails. Mine do not miss the sand or walnut shells at all...neither do I. :wink:

If it's one's decision to use a particle substrate please consider washed and sifted playsand and do not forget that particle substrates should be changed out about every 30days.

 

[Claudiusx]

I agree with Barbara's whole post.

-Brandon

 

[Goonie]

[Moved from General to Enclosures]

 

[Hydr1]

well im sure we would all live alot longer if we stayed in a glass box on sterile tile for the rest of our lives. I totally respect where you are comming from and agree with you. Since educating myself I have decided to use tile as well in my finishing viv. I have read countless threads where a vet has told an owner the cause of death and alot of the members here have suggested the vet is wrong and the death was 100% due to impaction via sand. Having 200000 posts on a website does not make anyone a specialist. Going to school, examining reptiles in person and being a documented vet makes you a specialist. So why try so hard to convince otherwise. Seems like every kooky wanna be herp specialist jumps right to impaction if a dragon doesnt eat for a day or doesnt take a dump.

Ive noticed alot of dragons that had a lack of calcium and proper lighting tend to eat the calcium sand on purpose. So lighting and supplements should be stressed in particualr. Im not disagreeing with anyone or sugesting anyone use sand. Just giving some feedback and discussion.

 

[Claudiusx]

Having 200000 posts on a website does not make anyone a specialist. Going to school, examining reptiles in person and being a documented vet makes you a specialist. So why try so hard to convince otherwise.

I agree, post count does not mean anything in regards to knowledge, but experience is 100 times better than anything you can learn from a book. Most of the people on here that recommend against sand or other loose particle substrates, do so because WE have had EXPERIENCE with sand, and have seen what it can do health wise.

Seems like every kooky wanna be herp specialist jumps right to impaction if a dragon doesnt eat for a day or doesnt take a dump.

This is because this is usually the first reason. An impaction can be caused by other things besides just sand. If a dragon isn't poo'ing regularly, it is pretty safe to say that dragon is semi impacted. And Impaction doesn't mean a full out we need to cut this dragon open to save it. Impaction can also mean just a little bit of blockage at the moment.

So, sorry if I disagree with you on this one, but I firmly believe (and trust) anyone with experience in a particular subject, as opposed to someone reading a book in a classroom setting.

-Brandon