Brumation?

[nickanthony]

Okay, so I've found all kinds of information on brumation and am pretty certain my little guy is experiencing this for the first time.

He sleeps a lot. Bedtime used to be around 7:00pm for him and he was always up around the time that I woke up at 6:00am. Now he's usually in his cave sleeping when I get home from work around 4:00pm and still sleeping when I get up. I don't even know what he does during the day sometimes. We leave fresh veggies out for him daily and some days he eats them all and others, he doesn't touch a thing. He's about a year old now and he seems to be making that transition to more veggies, less crickets. Although, even when he's awake, he won't eat the crickets anymore. They just crawl all over him and he closes his eyes and relaxes.

I guess what I'm confused about is how much should I handle him? I know you're still supposed to give them baths because when they do this in nature they can bury themselves in dirt and get constant moisture. So other than that should I leave him alone? If he doesn't wake up all day, should I wake him to offer him crickets or not? His belly is cold when he sleeps in his cave all day and that worries me. I know they can handle much lower temperatures when sleeping but when his belly is cold to the touch, I start to get scared and want to pull him out to put him on his rock. Also, I feel like he won't eat because he's always cold. Maybe if he was warmer, then he'd be more active and eat.Then again, brumation is a normal process and I would think that he knows what he needs so perhaps I should leave him alone.

It's all so confusing and ever since I got this guy, I've been so paranoid about every little move he makes. Hopefully somebody can calm my nerves and let me know that I'm being paranoid.

Thanks in advance.

 

[CooperDragon]

If he is in brumation then it's best to just let him do his thing and offer some hydration every now and then. You'll want to keep close track of his weight though. If he starts losing a lot of weight or if his beard goes black the lethargic behavior could indicate illness. If his weight is stable and he is just acting sleepy then he could be in some level of brumation which is OK.

 

[nickanthony]

Perfect thanks. Just wasn't sure if i should be disturbing him everyday by waking him and throwing crickets in his face. He looks healthy so I'll let him be and continue to be a worry wart until this finally ends.

 

[nickanthony]

Okay this is still driving me nuts. What's the longest brumution can last? I mean, how long before it's an issue that he's not eating any protein? I got superworms and phoenix worms which he won't eat either.

Also, how do they get calcium when they get to the age of more greens, less live food? I have the little pebble food that has all the vitamins in it but he's never eaten that before.

 

[SLDragon]

How old is he?

 

[CooperDragon]

At about a year old he will be transitioning to mainly veges soon. You can still provide calcium via veges such as collard greens and turnip greens. The supplements are still added to bugs when offered a few times per week.

 

[nickanthony]

He's about 11 months old. Thanks for the info.

He was up and just sitting in his cave this morning so i tried to pull him out and feed him. He had 2 superworms and refused the Phoenix worms. I left the room for 10 minutes after putting him back. He basked for a bit then ate some greens and is now perched on his tree. Very excited! Hopefully this time he stays up.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Considered good practice to keep beardies from brumating in their first year. Here (Australia) their first winter comes at about 6 - 9 months old.

Actually : none of my pet lizards have every shown any indications of wanting to brumate. I have a constant day setting of 15 - 16 hours per day and never change this.

Brumation is not necessary for a pet bearded dragon, they only brumate in the wild because their supply of insects and green leafy plants and fruits dries up (is very dry in central tropical Australia in winter) and contrary to what some say, it rarely cools to below 20oC overnight in these regions .
(Not frosty overnight like in the central deserts in the USA which are at very high elevations of a mile or more and at a much higher latitude (ie in the northern temperate zone rather the subtropical and tropical zone here (in Australia).
It is very pleasantly warm in winter in the bulk of central bearded dragons' natural range during the day too (often as warm as 30oC on sunny cloudless winter days which are the norm there).

How long do you keep the lights and heat on each day ?

I've noticed it is very common overseas (outside Australia) for beardie keepers to have very short "days" for their beardies of ONLY 10 - 12 hours and to provide insufficient UVA and UVB (ie a tube or compact that only provides 5% UVB rather than 10 - 12% UVB , this is more like winter daylight hours in tropical central Australia and it's little wonder their beardies try to brumate and don't grow well.

Can you check the UV rating on the tube ? How old is the tube ?

I suggest removing the water dish too, it will be contributing to tank humidity.
If you keep the lights on for 15 to 16 hours per day , the beardie will think it's still summer and will not likely try to brumate.

 

[kingofnobbys]

...

I don't even know what he does during the day sometimes. We leave fresh veggies out for him daily and some days he eats them all and others, he doesn't touch a thing. He's about a year old now and he seems to be making that transition to more veggies, less crickets. Although, even when he's awake, he won't eat the crickets anymore. They just crawl all over him and he closes his eyes and relaxes.

He's likely grazing on the salad while you are not looking, some are sly , sneaky or shy salad eaters.
I used to weigh the salad when I put it in and again when I removed it, I allowed 15% for drying out and the rest of the difference was assumed eaten , was not uncommon for Rex and Puff at 1 year old to eat 3 - 4 grams of salad per day though I rarely saw them eat salad.

offer crickets first and only a few at a time, then put the salad in later in the day

I guess what I'm confused about is how much should I handle him?

daily for bonding and snuggles and while spot cleaning.

I know you're still supposed to give them baths because when they do this in nature they can bury themselves in dirt and get constant moisture.

WHO EVER TOLD YOU THAT IS WRONG.
In the wild they do not get any moisture from the sand/dirt/loose claylike stuff they burrow into, the only way for a beardie to hydrate IS VIA IT"S MOUTH.
Also their natural range is typically in drought for up 10 years and wild central bearded dragons rarely encounter damp sand or soil or standing water or even more rarely experience running water in Australia's dry central deserts , sevannahs, and dry woodlands.

The only moisture they get in the wild is :
-- from green leafy plants
-- fruits they find near or on the ground the ground
-- insects they catch
-- smaller reptiles they catch
-- small animals (mice, bird hatchlings, bird eggs) they catch
-- early morning dew on plants and on them while warming up
-- the very rare shower of rain (if a cyclone happens to penetrate that far inland as tropical low) in the northern rainy season (monsoon).

ONLY time beardies need a bath are:
---- it's soiled itself (for hygienic reasons)
---- it's impacted maybe (with tummy rub)
---- it's too hot (to cool down)
---- it's injured (open wound) weak betadiene soak to help prevent infection

So other than that should I leave him alone? If he doesn't wake up all day, should I wake him to offer him crickets or not? His belly is cold when he sleeps in his cave all day and that worries me. I know they can handle much lower temperatures when sleeping but when his belly is cold to the touch, I start to get scared and want to pull him out to put him on his rock. Also, I feel like he won't eat because he's always cold. Maybe if he was warmer, then he'd be more active and eat.Then again, brumation is a normal process and I would think that he knows what he needs so perhaps I should leave him alone.

Slip a film type heatpad on a thermostat (set to 37oC) under his hide, all mine have one (I sandwich my heatpads between ceramic tiles) .
He's not active AND NOT EATING because he's cold , as well as likely not seeing long enough days and perhaps your UV is unappropriate or too old.

It's all so confusing and ever since I got this guy, I've been so paranoid about every little move he makes. Hopefully somebody can calm my nerves and let me know that I'm being paranoid.

Thanks in advance.

Yes, lot of bad advise out there , often coming from pet shops , but also sometimes from "experienced" keepers and breeders.

I'm no expert, my oldest beardie is only 3.5 years old, and I've only raised two sets of hatchlings (Puff and Rex) and now Peppa and Toothless (6 months old), I've only had pet lizards for about 7 years (Bluetongue skinks (George and Mildred) and Water Skinks (Lucky the Rescue and then Wriggles the Rescue)..

 

[nickanthony]

Considered good practice to keep beardies from brumating in their first year. Here (Australia) their first winter comes at about 6 - 9 months old.

Actually : none of my pet lizards have every shown any indications of wanting to brumate. I have a constant day setting of 15 - 16 hours per day and never change this.

Brumation is not necessary for a pet bearded dragon, they only brumate in the wild because their supply of insects and green leafy plants and fruits dries up (is very dry in central tropical Australia in winter) and contrary to what some say, it rarely cools to below 20oC overnight in these regions .
(Not frosty overnight like in the central deserts in the USA which are at very high elevations of a mile or more and at a much higher latitude (ie in the northern temperate zone rather the subtropical and tropical zone here (in Australia).
It is very pleasantly warm in winter in the bulk of central bearded dragons' natural range during the day too (often as warm as 30oC on sunny cloudless winter days which are the norm there).

How long do you keep the lights and heat on each day ?

I've noticed it is very common overseas (outside Australia) for beardie keepers to have very short "days" for their beardies of ONLY 10 - 12 hours and to provide insufficient UVA and UVB (ie a tube or compact that only provides 5% UVB rather than 10 - 12% UVB , this is more like winter daylight hours in tropical central Australia and it's little wonder their beardies try to brumate and don't grow well.

Can you check the UV rating on the tube ? How old is the tube ?

I suggest removing the water dish too, it will be contributing to tank humidity.
If you keep the lights on for 15 to 16 hours per day , the beardie will think it's still summer and will not likely try to brumate.

Wow thanks for that. It's great to get advice from someone living in their native country. The uvb is a 10% one and all lights stay on for 14 hours. I never changed that cycle. He started his brumation all on his own and the first month or so i actually fought it cause i didn't know what it was. I'm on my second bulb right now. The one in there is about 2 weeks old. I have a ceramic heater but I rarely use it because it never drops below 70 deg F in there.

I'll take the water out. I've heard so many mixed things in that as well but I've never once seen him drink from it so i think it's pointless. Should i change his lights to 15 or 16 hours from 14?