blood test or xrays? (w.o.t) help!plzzz!

[bdchip]

a while ago i took my beardie to the vet for what seemed to be calcium deficiency or mbd. it wasnt the vet said he didnt have any signs of that. bottom line is he doesnt eat anymore (b4 i took him to the vet he did eat), he walks on his joints, doesnt really hold himself up (although the other day i caught him holding himself up), hes pretty active though he basks and hides and basks and head bobs, hes actually all over the place, if he sees my female hell go crazy running around in his cage. i have looked up every disease, parasite and there is nothing that matches his symptoms. so i am going to finally be getting him back to the vet after 4 shots of baytril didnt do anything (so does that mean no parasites?) and having extra cash, for either blood test or xrays. which one should i get done for his condition? im thinking blood test. its either one or the other. (for now at least) would you say 80$ is a reasonable price for blood test? seems high.

cage is 4x2x2
basking spot is 100-105
hot side is 90+
cool side is 84+
repti glo 10.0 (ab 3 months old)
i offer him supers, meals, crix, and roaches everyday. doesnt eat anything. however sometimes he will eat some wax worms.
hes been drinkin lots of water lately too. ive been misting him everyday now and he always drinks.
hes ab a year and 2 months.
had my dragon since he was 2 months.
hes ab 19-20 in long.
hes male.
i use tile for substrate.
he can get within 6-8 in. from uvb.
i use digi thermoms along with a temp gun.
i am giving him liquid calcium everyday at 3ccs.
i am also slightly force feeding him. i have squash, green beans, and chicken baby food. i put it on his nose and he licks it off sometimes, othertimes i have to use actual force.
i have mixed in some herptivite with the chicken baby food, aswell as this stuff called parazap.
he poops but not that often, prolly cuz he doesnt eat much.
i try to bathe once a week however, when i put him in the bath he submerges himself with his eyes open looking up at me. (i think hes trying to drown himself)
he doesnt share a cage and i have never had a fecal done.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well, if the vet did not do a bloodtest or x-rays, how did he determine that your dragon does not have hypocalcemia or the beginnings of metabolic bone disease? Walking on his wrists is not normal, & that indicates lack of strength in the bone & joint area.
I hate to have to tell you but the Reptiglo 10 flourescent tube bulb is a horrible light. There have been numerous people that have used this light & only to have their dragon begin having bone problems months later. It actually emits low wavelength UVB light which is close to UVC. The wavelength that it does put out is not very favorable for D3 synthesis which inhibits calcium absorption. I highly suggest that you look for the Reptisun 10 flourescent tube bulb. You can get that from http://www.petmountain.com
If you are in the UK, you can look for the Arcadia D3 12% which is an excellent light.

Everything else looks fine. The calcium, do you supplement it 3 times per week or so?
For now, I would continue to feed him the squash & the other babyfood to help him out if he will not eat any feeders.
His head bobbing is normal with a female around especially.
The Baytril most likely did nothing because he doesn't have any infection that it would be treating, so that medication really should never have been given with no confirmed infection or other diagnosis.
If I had to choose, I would do a bloodtest first. Request an ionized calcium test along with the regular complete blood count (CBC) blood test. The ionized calcium just does a little extra testing on the 25 hydroxy levels which will help to indicate how much calcium is being absorbed into the bones.
If his bones have not been leached too much yet, an x-ray may or may not show any density problems or porous areas quite yet.
I think your money would be better spent starting with a blood test, first. If he is found hypocalcemic, then, getting the better UVB light should help immensely. Then, I would request that he give you some liquid calcium to give to him for at least 1 month which will boost his levels & will be absorbed better than the powder.

Tracie

 

[bdchip]

im sorry im not using reptiglo that was a typo i would never do that i use reptisun (tube). ive read all the terrible articles on that bulb. i have been giving him liquid calcium for about a month now the kind from beautiful dragons, is that stuff not strong enough?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh well good that you are using the Reptisun 10.
How far do you have it from him? Is there a plastic cover over the light possibly? Do you have the light on top of a screen top?
The liquid calcium from beautiful dragons is great quality. How much are you giving, are you dosing according to his weight?
Are you feeding him something that would cause the calcium to not be absorbed very well?

Tracie

 

[bdchip]

uvb is ab 6in away from him, no plastic cover, its drilled into the wood (nothing is covering it) u suggested to me b4 3.5 ccs so thats what i give him. i am feeding him chicken babyfood, squash and green bean baby food. not much though probably like 1ml all together from the 3.

 

[bdchip]

i just noticed today that my beardie had something hanging from his anus.....it looked like skin/shell from a bug. so i picked it off....it came off easily, it had like white string cheese stuff on it that came with it. his anus also looks like its open, while me females looks like its closed. his is also kinda yellow. he didnt really mind me touching it. could this be something. i can post pics if needed?!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Ok, how much liquid calcium are you giving again & which brand are you using, the beautiful dragons liquid calcium? You mentioned 3cc's? Are you sure you don't mean .3cc's? How much does he weigh? Just making sure because I don't think that 3cc's is right, unless I forgot the decimal point but I don't think so. Please recheck the amount for me, ok? Thanks. We need to review that. Perhaps he is not absorbing his calcium properly.
It sounds like he has or had a seminal plug or a sperm plug. It is quite normal, & it doesn't hurt them. You can post a picture of it if you want though, but that is what it sounds like.
How is he doing today?
How much time does he spend underneath his UVB light, & do you have his basking light directly beside it too?
Oh the $80 is not bad for a bloodtest.


Tracie

 

[bdchip]

the syringe i use has 1ml with 4 small lines below it i go to the third line. so im thinkin thats 3ccs. last time i weighed him he was 535grams but he looks like he is loosing weight. he is doing the same active but not eating still. his basking light and uvb are right in front of eachother.
__0_______0__ idk if u can get a mental picture from that <<<<< but the top line is the uvb and the 0's are his lights and the other line is his rock

____________ the 0's r technically in front of his uvb but when he basks hes in uvb

im going to get some pics up.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

No, you are using .3cc. It you are going less than the 1ml, then you are looking at the syringe in tenths. Does that make sense?

He needs to have the basking light directly beside the UVB so that he can get heat & UVB all together. If you could post a pic that would be great.
Where does he spend his most time at? If you can figure that out then you can switch the lights around according to where he would get the most out of his lights.
How is he doing today? If he is losing weight then you may need to begin supplementing his diet with some syringe feeding if he will take to that for awhile. Just until you can get him more stabilized.
Looking forward to the pictures.

Tracie

 

[bdchip]

his crepidness....

he spends majority of his time on that big rock like hanging off of it, occasionally he gets on top of the log, and he sits where he is now, also he somedays he spends quite a bit of time underneath that ramp.

lights

see how its kinda yellow?

he never gapes, only has his mouth open a little bit (all the time though) i have never seen mucus so no RI?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

The lighting is fine then! It looks good.
He has gone up on weight so adjust his liquid calcium to .54, ok? That is a little over half of a cc, or ml. How long have you been using the Reptisun 10 now? Try increasing his calcium to the new dosage, & give 5 times per week. He may not be absorbing it very well for some reason. We need to get this fixed so he doesn't develop any bone deviations & we can get him to stop walking on his wrists.
The yellowish color at the flap of skin appears normal. He has not been on heavy loads of antibiotics has he? What type of greens are you feeding right now?

Tracie

 

[bdchip]

ok i will start giving him .54. i have always used a reptisun with him and all of my herps. well when i first got him i used a solar-glo mvb. i dont give him any antibiotics, i was given parazap and acidophyilz? for free and every once in a while use the parazap with the baby food i give him, never used the acid stuff. he wont eat vegetables and the only baby food veges i found that were good for him was squash and green beans. could i blend up some collards and other greens along with some supers or roaches and syringe feed him that? if so how long is that good for, i know that crickets are no good once theyre dead so im assuming i couldnt make a nicely sized quantity of this.

 

[bdchip]

ok so today i was tryin to grab him to feed him and i noticed his back leg twitching.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,
I was thinking that if he is spending alot of time hanging off of his rock or underneath his ramp, how much actual time is he getting of UVB lighting?
If he is not absorbing his calcium very well, you might want to consider getting a Megaray to give him stronger UVB's for awhile. The Reptisun is good, but the Megaray is 4 times stronger than the Reptisun is & it may help him out quite a bit.
You could mix up a slurry or roaches or crickets & greens for him. It would keep for a few days in the fridge.
Keep me posted on him.
Maybe the vet can give a calcium booster shot, too. That usually helps alot.

Tracie