Best Friends Forever? or Impending Death Match?

[dougwinston]

I recently bought a healthy bearded dragon from Petsmart, where I work, and he is healthy and active and eating and growing etc. I did the research so everything is set up right (I know firsthand how under-trained pet store employees are by association.) He's got UVB, 20g tank to start out, and the right temps etc etc. All good.

Then about 5 days ago while I was working, well after having been enlightened to the neglected needs of pet store dragons, I noticed a tiny, scrawny, puny, tiny bearded dragon huddled up in his tiny habitat all by himself where he tried his best to get close to the pathetic 50 watt bulb the store used. Couldn't bear it so I stole him (stealing = bad, preventing pet stores from receiving money for mistreating animals = good). My original dragon is named Winston, so I now have Doug who has completely bounced back and is in healthy condition. They are pretty close in size although Winston has an edge. They are both either a month or less in age.

To the main point though; They perform their arm circles mutually a large majority of the time and the head bob is rare. they get on one another every now and then. thankfully neither of them is a total domineering douche so them living together has not yet become a problem. if i get a big enough enclosure and they turn out to be female will they be ok together? i cant afford double enclosures and id rather not go thru the work of finding doug a home. i understand the tank size necessary for 2 is gonna be in the 100's by gallon. will them living with eachother from such a young age help?

 

[Gail]

Impending death match. Sorry but dragons housed together almost always end up in a fight. It could start soon or it could take a few years but its a really bad idea.

 

[dougwinston]

thank you very much, is there at least a general time frame before juveniles become dangerous to eachother? im hoping to get em thru their first half year or so until they are more stable so id feel comfortable giving him to a friend or family member

 

[evanescent]

thank you very much, is there at least a general time frame before juveniles become dangerous to eachother? im hoping to get em thru their first half year or so until they are more stable so id feel comfortable giving him to a friend or family member

nope, no time frame.
I had a baby who had her arm bitten almost off by another baby.. they also bit her head and her tail. She lost the arm, but luckily her head and tail are fine. She contracted Septic Athritis, probably from the bite, though..if you know what that is, you probably winced. :c
also, this did not happen in my care, but in a shop.. I got her for free from the girl who rescued her for free because the shop was going to euthanize her.. not stealing, legitly free.

and, actually, juvies tend to get terrirorial.. especially if they both end up being male..
I would put up a post on the For Free forum we have here, and screen potential adopters..
(or get another enclosure for the new one..)
if they have a good number of posts you can always scan through it to see their history and know if they're a worthy beardieowner.

sometimes the fighting starts right away, and sometimes dragons who have lived peacefully together for years will randomly turn on eachother..

and no, sadly being together from a young age does not change or help anything..juvies are actually generally more vicious to eachother..

oh and Winston's your beardie.. haha I see why you liked my fish's name now. c:
it is a pretty spiffy name, though, isn't it? ;D

and ah, stealing is bad but technically if you got caught you could accuse them of not living up to their guaranteed health regiment.. the saying that possession is 9/10ths of the law is true, but accusing someone of Legal Fraud generally gets them to back off..

Lol I was going to scould you for buying a shop dragon that looked sickly..NEVER pay for abused shop babies, it encourages the store..no matter how much it hurts, you have to just walk away.. complain about the store and to the manager, but don't encourage them.. but since you stole it, I am not sure whether to say Nice Job! or scold you. I'll go with the pat on the back and encouragement, just don't do it again..you'll get caught eventually. D:

 

[Gail]

Babies and juvies can and will fight but if you provide plenty of food and two basking areas, you may be able to get away with them being together until 4 month old. I wouldn't go for any longer then that though or you risk trouble.

 

[LilStinkpot]

I always prefer trying to educate pet store staff on the proper care of critters they may be mistreating. Sometimes I get lucky, and they make a real effort to change. You never know until you try. It's fun!

This instance, though, teaches no one anything. I am sorry, but I cannot condone stealing. Not even in a case like this. The owners learned nothing but to keep a lock on the cage, and to trust customers even less.

Good luck with your babies. You will need to separate them NOW. Even if both spend all day arm waving, they will focus on that activity, and not on dinner.

 

[dougwinston]

if it says anything to the amount of consideration given to the pets, no one ever noticed the bearded dragon was gone :/

 

[lauraj1055]

I have 2 females that love being together.. you can NEVER house 2 males together... a male and a female NOT a good idea due to them trying to breed, but I have heard many stories and know a lot of people who house 2 females together.. but you NEED to know if you have females, and not just think you do... Yellow Room Reptiles has a whole room dedicated to their females and they all live together...

Here is a quote from Rio Reptiles Care Sheet:

Now, when housing dragons together there are a few things to remember. First, unless you want babies,
house males and females separately. It's only natural, and it will happen. If your goal is to breed, still keep
the two in separate tanks because the male will continuously try to breed the female and cause her undue
stress. Second, never house males together. It causes too much stress to be put on them. Males are
naturally territorial and very competitive, so you'll likely end up with dragons having various injuries and
possibly death. If breeding however, it's a great idea to place the males, in separate tanks, within sight
distance of each other. This tends to get them going and ready for the ladies. Females are perfect to house
together, so long as they are about an inch and a half or so similar in size. Bearded Dragons are wonderful
pets to watch and when you house 2 or more specimens together you get to witness their natural behaviors
of arm waving and head bobbing, which are forms of communication. Just remember, the more dragons in a
cage, the bigger the cage needs to be. When housing hatchlings together, males and females alike can be
housed together. When they are that young, be sure to keep an eye on size and temperament. Watch out
for those babies that tend to grow the fastest. These babies are generally more aggressive and will be the
ones to eat first and the most, causing more submissive dragons to lose a meal. Over time this can be quite
dangerous to the submissive dragons and cause them to grow more slowly or become afraid to eat. The
more aggressive baby will be more likely to nip the toes and/or tail of the more submissive one, and also eat
most of the food, causing the smaller ones to be stressed out. at this point, it's best to separate the babies
by size and temperament. All babies must be kept within the same size range to ensure that no one is
feeling stressed out and as they grow, continue to be split up in to the appropriate baby bins.

 

[dougwinston]

tyvm, can anyone provide me with sexing tips or do i have to wait out a couplemonths til its easier to tell and hope for the best?

 

[lauraj1055]

I can sex them at 2 - 3 months..males usually are easier to sex than females. I can send a link when I get home if noone pipes in by then

 

[lauraj1055]

Here you go:

http://www.rioreptiles.com/sexing.html

 

[Kalec]

I still would not risk housing them together, even if they both turn out female. I've seen far too many posts about two females trying to kill each other when housed together to think it is remotely safe. They are solitary animals and do best when housed separately - no matter how fun it might be to watch their natural behaviours when together, its too much stress on the animals.

 

[Dracosmommy]

Draco had 3 inches of tail bitten off as a baby by his tankmates. He also didn't get a fair share of food and had to be separated. Once in his own tank the weight just flew on him. I didn't have him then but the guy I bought him off told me this. I too have heard too many stories of dragons getting hurt while housed together. If you could get a say 100 to 125 gallon tank and put a divider down the middle making sure they couldn't see each other and that it was very secure. Would that be an option instead of housing them together?? You'd have one tank and they would have their separate spaces. Just a thought. :mrgreen:

 

[lauraj1055]

I am not in any means stating it is ok to always house dragons together.. however there is the rare occassion that they will get along.. but that rare occassion will be with 2 females.. I do have a friend that houses a male and female together, he has never tried to breed her, and they get along fine, and they have been together for years.. yes, it is not a good idea to house 2 together, but there is the rare instances it is fine.. I have 2 older females housed together right now, and they are fine.. I did seperate them and they both stopped eating and just laid in their tanks.. once I put them back togehter, their colors brightened up, and they started eating again and they lay next to each other and bask away...

 

[Dracosmommy]

if it says anything to the amount of consideration given to the pets, no one ever noticed the bearded dragon was gone :/

But the owners still learned nothing and will still do it to another dragon. Two wrongs don't make it right. Sorry. I agree with lilstinkpot, stealing is wrong. Education is the key to petstores. If you had asked they might have given the beardie to you. Less money for them to spend getting the sick beardie healthy. Money is the bottom line when it comes to petstores. Sad but true.
I am glad though that you have him. Don't agree with the method, but glad you got him, and he's going to be well loved and cared for. :mrgreen: