beardie's see their human as ....

[kingofnobbys]

So dogs see their owners as the alpha dog , perhaps as gods.

Cats see humans as a soft touch and a convenience.

I reckon beardies see their keepers as gods , though sometimes it appears they regard us as their slaves.

What do you reckon ?

 

[DaisyDragon123]

Well, I don't think any animals view us as gods.

I don't subscribe to the whole alpha dog theory. Many do and I don't have a problem with it. I think they see us more as caregiver and guardian.

Cats, well they will dine on your dead body a lot faster than your dog will. So, I would say they view us as an inconvenience to be tolerated and a possible snack.

Dragons it's hard to say. They should view us as a threat and potential predator but most don't. Dragons probably view us as the dispensers of all things good.

 

[beardie parents]

Dragons it's hard to say. They should view us as a threat and potential predator but most don't. Dragons probably view us as the dispensers of all things good.

Our dragons (especially Lil Squirt) view us as the required shoulder to sit on - preferably 24/7 - They would prefer to sleep with us all night.

 

[HKzForDayz]

I have pondered this myself too. I dont know that I would say dogs view us as gods, but i definitely agree with the whole alpha/pack hiearchy theory, depending on the breed of dog. I have both Doberman breeders and Boston terrier breeders in my network of friends, and you can see the hiearchy in his dobermans, with him being the obvious pack leader. the bostons, there is no evident order whatsoever, just smushed faced,unruly, chaos. Cats I believe see us as a king sees a peasant. Dragons, now Its hard for me to imagine what a dragon thinks of us. Honestly, I feel like they are super confused about us. The many many looks our dragons give us , could be them trying to figure us TF out lol.

 

[Beardymama33]

Mine sees me as mommy and that safe hidey place when that little two legged creature (my 3 year old) gets to loud.....

 

[AHBD]

I think some beardies view us as warm, moveable furniture as well as food dispensary. For bold adventurous dragons, they see us also as the gate to possible adventure [ getting to go outside the tank, out in the sun, etc. ]

Having owned cats since I was a child, I see a prejudice + sterotype on here. My cats were warm + affectionate, greeted me at the door and snuggled with me all the more intiuitively when I was sick. Some of my best 4 legged buds were my cats. And as far as courage + loyalty to their babies, check this story:

On March 30, 1996, Scarlett and her five kittens were in an abandoned garage allegedly used as a crack house in Brooklyn when a fire started from undetermined causes. The New York City Fire Department responded to a call about the fire and quickly extinguished it. When the fire was under control, one of the firefighters on the scene, David Giannelli, noticed Scarlett carrying her kittens away from the garage one by one. Scarlett herself had been severely burned in the process of pulling her kittens from the fire. Her eyes were blistered shut, her ears and paws burned, and her coat highly singed. The majority of her facial hair had been burnt away. After saving the kittens she was seen to touch each of her kittens with her nose to ensure they were all there and alive, as the blisters on her eyes kept her from being able to see them, and then she collapsed unconscious.

Story from Wikipedia, but it made world news + many articles written about it complete with pics of Scarlett..

Apologize fro getting off topic, but had to come to bat for the felines.

 

[Beardymama33]

I think some beardies view us as warm, moveable furniture as well as food dispensary. For bold adventurous dragons, they see us also as the gate to possible adventure [ getting to go outside the tank, out in the sun, etc. ]

Having owned cats since I was a child, I see a prejudice + sterotype on here. My cats were warm + affectionate, greeted me at the door and snuggled with me all the more intiuitively when I was sick. Some of my best 4 legged buds were my cats. And as far as courage + loyalty to their babies, check this story:

On March 30, 1996, Scarlett and her five kittens were in an abandoned garage allegedly used as a crack house in Brooklyn when a fire started from undetermined causes. The New York City Fire Department responded to a call about the fire and quickly extinguished it. When the fire was under control, one of the firefighters on the scene, David Giannelli, noticed Scarlett carrying her kittens away from the garage one by one. Scarlett herself had been severely burned in the process of pulling her kittens from the fire. Her eyes were blistered shut, her ears and paws burned, and her coat highly singed. The majority of her facial hair had been burnt away. After saving the kittens she was seen to touch each of her kittens with her nose to ensure they were all there and alive, as the blisters on her eyes kept her from being able to see them, and then she collapsed unconscious.

Story from Wikipedia, but it made world news + many articles written about it complete with pics of Scarlett..

Apologize fro getting off topic, but had to come to bat for the felines.

that cat did survive. As fo rthe cats, growing up we had some that were "dont come near me" cats and some that were "why arent you petting me" cats. There was a black cat named spooky that would cry when we left the house because she saw me and my brother and sister as her "kittens" we all loved her but she was very attached to me and i was very attached to her....she went on a walk off when she was around 13 or 14 years old after battling a disease that made her pee blood off and on for a few years....I cried and felt really sad for several weeks after and to this day when someone says the word spooky i still feel sad. Cats are very resilient animals that have a will to survive. I was given 4 kittens to bottle feed, my mom got them from someone that couldn't care for them because a dog killed their mom. They were so covered in fleas that two were on the brink of death and the runt was so scrawny that it looked like a grim outcome for all but one. I woke up 3 times a night to feed them and my mom helped during the day when she could. i made sure to reverse feed them (the runt first then the sickest and then the weaker of the two that looked like fighters) happily i had 4 little piggies within a week and my mom told anyone who stood still to listen about the miracle kittens that i saved....umm i only fed them they did the rest! funniest thing is the runt turned out to be bigger than the rest in the end!

 

[Taterbug]

I think attributing human feelings/intent/interpretation to animals is doing them a disservice and usually just stroking the human ego. It seems a big leap to me to say any animal sees us as gods just because that's sort of a complex idea. (Evidence of Theory of mind Is so far very limited in animals).

Cats and dogs are social animals basically designed to be a part of human life - their are rules to all social groups (even for wild animals) and on top of that they have personalities. My cat is super affectionate, he does what he can to tell me what he wants/needs (like food, to clean the car box), he reacts to my emotions and behaviors, but knows I could ruin his day. At the same time he thinks the vaccume could too. I don't presume to make a judgment about what he thinks about these things though. Is the vaccume a god? A monster? A horrible noise that hurts his ears sometimes and he never knows when or why that will happen?

Reptile brains are functionally quite different - they lack some of the structures associated with complex emotions in mammals. That doesn't mean they are stupid but I'd bet "thought" for a lizard is quite different that what we consider thought. I'm sure my reptiles all view me as a potential threat, simply because I am bigger, unpredictable and do things to them that can be considered predatory.

Still, they are smart in their right - they can learn, solve puzzles, adapt to situations like captivity and have communication of their own. My reptiles recognize me and do not frequently engage in defensive behavior; does that mean they like me or that they know I am more associated with good things than bad ones? food only appears when I am there, poop only disappears when I am there, they only come out when I take them out, sometimes bizzar things happen like baths or going outside. Personally I am not sure they like me any more than they know I'm a resource.

It's not as romantic as making them seem more human but part of what fascinates me about animals is how alien they really are. My pets are these little creatures that live in my house, whose needs intend to daily,who I do my best to respect for who and what they are.

 

[Beardymama33]

I think attributing human feelings/intent/interpretation to animals is doing them a disservice and usually just stroking the human ego. It seems a big leap to me to say any animal sees us as gods just because that's sort of a complex idea. (Evidence of Theory of mind Is so far very limited in animals).

Cats and dogs are social animals basically designed to be a part of human life - their are rules to all social groups (even for wild animals) and on top of that they have personalities. My cat is super affectionate, he does what he can to tell me what he wants/needs (like food, to clean the car box), he reacts to my emotions and behaviors, but knows I could ruin his day. At the same time he thinks the vaccume could too. I don't presume to make a judgment about what he thinks about these things though. Is the vaccume a god? A monster? A horrible noise that hurts his ears sometimes and he never knows when or why that will happen?

Reptile brains are functionally quite different - they lack some of the structures associated with complex emotions in mammals. That doesn't mean they are stupid but I'd bet "thought" for a lizard is quite different that what we consider thought. I'm sure my reptiles all view me as a potential threat, simply because I am bigger, unpredictable and do things to them that can be considered predatory.

Still, they are smart in their right - they can learn, solve puzzles, adapt to situations like captivity and have communication of their own. My reptiles recognize me and do not frequently engage in defensive behavior; does that mean they like me or that they know I am more associated with good things than bad ones? food only appears when I am there, poop only disappears when I am there, they only come out when I take them out, sometimes bizzar things happen like baths or going outside. Personally I am not sure they like me any more than they know I'm a resource.

It's not as romantic as making them seem more human but part of what fascinates me about animals is how alien they really are. My pets are these little creatures that live in my house, whose needs intend to daily,who I do my best to respect for who and what they are.

Actually animals do have emotions, and see humans as part of their group or pack. Even beardies and other reptiles will either see you as the dominant or the submissive. The way animals think and feel is more complex than most people give them credit for no matter what side of the fence they are on. They dont see us as gods, or masters per-say but they do see us as alpha, dominate, mom, dad (falls in the alpha category because in dogs and cats social structure the mother and father are usually the alphas or dominates) with reptiles, it has been proven that many are social and make friends, enemies, and neutrals.

 

[DaisyDragon123]

I think attributing human feelings/intent/interpretation to animals is doing them a disservice and usually just stroking the human ego. It seems a big leap to me to say any animal sees us as gods just because that's sort of a complex idea. (Evidence of Theory of mind Is so far very limited in animals).

Cats and dogs are social animals basically designed to be a part of human life - their are rules to all social groups (even for wild animals) and on top of that they have personalities. My cat is super affectionate, he does what he can to tell me what he wants/needs (like food, to clean the car box), he reacts to my emotions and behaviors, but knows I could ruin his day. At the same time he thinks the vaccume could too. I don't presume to make a judgment about what he thinks about these things though. Is the vaccume a god? A monster? A horrible noise that hurts his ears sometimes and he never knows when or why that will happen?

Reptile brains are functionally quite different - they lack some of the structures associated with complex emotions in mammals. That doesn't mean they are stupid but I'd bet "thought" for a lizard is quite different that what we consider thought. I'm sure my reptiles all view me as a potential threat, simply because I am bigger, unpredictable and do things to them that can be considered predatory.

Still, they are smart in their right - they can learn, solve puzzles, adapt to situations like captivity and have communication of their own. My reptiles recognize me and do not frequently engage in defensive behavior; does that mean they like me or that they know I am more associated with good things than bad ones? food only appears when I am there, poop only disappears when I am there, they only come out when I take them out, sometimes bizzar things happen like baths or going outside. Personally I am not sure they like me any more than they know I'm a resource.

It's not as romantic as making them seem more human but part of what fascinates me about animals is how alien they really are. My pets are these little creatures that live in my house, whose needs intend to daily,who I do my best to respect for who and what they are.

Actually animals do have emotions, and see humans as part of their group or pack. Even beardies and other reptiles will either see you as the dominant or the submissive. The way animals think and feel is more complex than most people give them credit for no matter what side of the fence they are on. They dont see us as gods, or masters per-say but they do see us as alpha, dominate, mom, dad (falls in the alpha category because in dogs and cats social structure the mother and father are usually the alphas or dominates) with reptiles, it has been proven that many are social and make friends, enemies, and neutrals.

Not picking on you, but do you have any published references for the last sentence regarding "many are social, make friends etc."? I'm looking for published articles and the like. Thanks.

 

[AHBD]

I think the topic of this thread is only meant mostly as a humorous/joking kind of discussion. Kind of like when a woman says " my husband thinks I'm a slave " or " my kids think I'm an ATM " kind of thing.

 

[DaisyDragon123]

Yeah. I agree that the post was meant as a lighthearted thread. I just like studies.

It wasn't that long ago that dogs were considered mindless chattel and the only context of their being in relation to us was human as master, then we became alpha, and now we are becoming guardian.

The field is still limited, but animals are turning out to have more brains and cognitive skills than first thought. Alex the African Gray parrot comes to mind. I just thought maybe something similar with dragons flew under my radar.

I wish I knew how to put in those emoji icons so I could smooth out my tone when posting.

 

[AHBD]

Your tone is fine, and I think that this whole topic that it's morphed in to is interesting. Animals are amazing in many ways and we are always learning about them.

 

[Taterbug]

I'm not saying they don't have emotions at all but that the experience of being a lizard is probably wildly different and many of our human emotional labels may not apply. Emotions like fear or contentment (though I wouldn't call those emotions) are not quite the same as something complex like love or other emotions that are rooted in the human experience. Some reptiles indeed form pair bonds, practice parental care, some even form communal groups and family based communities. It's really quite awesome.

I was listing to a great article about Alex after seeing this thread. Animals are amazing and now that we are finally learning to ask them questions they can understand we really are learning so much. Maybe I'm too much of a nerd and have trouble with the light hearted :0