Beardie care around the world.

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Sylphie

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#BeardieCareAroundTheWorld - Poland, Europe

As one person of facebook beardie group asked for info about what are the differences in care around the world I wrote that small post. Maybe someone here will find it interesting too! Below is some basic info from my country. I guess no one here knows polish, so I'll just write everything.

First thing that may be interesting for you is that for a whole country we're having only one reptile forum, so if anyone needs to rehome their beardies they know where to go. There is only one reptile rescue in a whole country and tbh they are mostly having snakes, tortoises and some iguanas. Beardies are one of the most "typical" newbie pets here too, but yet, problem with unwanted dragons is practically non-existent.

Husbandry:
As for dimensions it's the same as in US/UK, but here it must be wood/glass tank, and fish tanks are NO for most owners. They think that in fish tanks it's impossible to maintain a good humidity and ventilation... but there is also a lot of people that argue this, as we all know that with a proper setup even fish tank can have ideal conditions.

Lighting&Temps are the same too, but here a spiral UV bulbs are totally okay to use (and that's what most of us use, as tubes are a looot more costly and harder to find).

Substrate... sand is a no, coco peat are a no, but most of us are using coco bark (some big breeders prefer newspapers/tiles). Impactions are super rare, and if they occur it's mostly from peat, bad temps, bad diet.

In general we also prefer a natural type set-ups, so no beds, hammocks etc.

Diet:
These are probably the biggest differences. We don't have basics greens like collards, prickly pears etc. avaiable at all. The only thing from basic greens that US/UK are using are dandelions and alfalfa.

Here the basic, everyday green diet are: dandelions, clovers, basil, melissa, alfalfa, Tradescantia... and some other "meadow" plants like plantain, white&purple dead-nettle, shepherd's purse and some others.

As for fruits and veggies, thay are the same as in US/UK so I won't list them. The same for vitamins and calcium.

But! As for worms diet, we are having roaches, crickets and mealworms easily avaiable so they are the basic worms we use. Some of the breeders don't like crickets couse they are mostly water and not very nutritient... Most of the big breeders are using mealworms as a basic for young beardies. We just put them in a bowl and beardies are having them all the time in their enclosure (like with greens) and can eat when they want. The curious thing is that I never saw/heard of a beardie that would eat all the mealworms at once and have health problems from that. Idk why but they are just eating 2-4 at a time and leaving rest until they are hungry again. I know that mealworms are fat food, but to be honest I never heard of an obese beardie or other health problems from that on our polish forum. When dragons are older they are having mostly roaches as they don't need as much worms food as small ones. Of course some breeders and keepers prefer to use just roaches couse they are afraid of impactions etc. But it's mostly just a personal preference, no one will be bashed if using mealworms.

Handling&keeping:

We love our dragons too so we spend a lot of time bonding etc., just like owners from other countries. But, what I find rather disturbing personally is that a lot of good breeders that are having really healthy dragons are recommending to co-hab them. It's common practice here to keep babies together, adult females together or even harems. And it wouldn't be so bad if they would mention that it's also normal for them to lose toes or tails couse of the "casual" bites here and there. But you would mostly hear that it's okay and they will be fine... I really can't understand why it's that way since like I said it's not like these breeders are the type of "only money is important", they really care for their animals and you can see that their overall health is excellent. This way our male was without two toes and a part of his tail when we bought him. And this way our female lost part of her toe too, couse I decied that since it's okay to keep them together all the time they won't "die" while in bath for a few minutes... So yeah, that's the point I can't really comprehend.

These are the basics, if you are having any questions feel free to ask them! Just remember that even if things are different here we love and care for our pets just as much as you! And they are as healthy and live as long too!

And please remember also that these are my personal research and not the way all people here are thinking. I'm sure some of them hate co-hab as much, or prefer to use beds and hammocks, or are hating mealworms and spiral bulbs. These info I posted are what you can find in care-sheets, articles and in general "you should do things like this" info that you'll hear from other keepers/breeders.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi Sylphie, I enjoyed reading that, thank you for putting so much info down concerning how beardie care is done in Poland. :) I just wanted to mention that I agree that mealworms are O.K in some amounts for beardies. I shy away from recommending them for babies, they can cause impaction but under ideal conditions most beardies can handle them. I had a colony of mealworms for 5 years in the past but now order superworms, crickets + horworms online for my adult beardies. When I raised babies I fed them tiny crickets , then mealworms just once -twice a week as they got older. I also use clovers , my beardies enjoy the leaves, not so much the flower, and dandelion and mulberry leaves all from my yard. As for the coil/compact bulbs, some owners use them with no problem. A long time breeder in the U.S uses them to raise their babies so they obviously are not as bad as many people believe. Even I got in to the habit of just telling people they " need " a long tube Reptisun uvb but it's not always the case.

Anyway, thanks for the information, good to hear about beardies in your part of the world. :)
 

Sylphie

Member
Original Poster
Glad someone liked reading about it! I like to read about reptiles in english and then compare it to the care in our parts of the world. That way I can be somewhere in the middle and see what fits me best. For example our male is loving his roaches, so he's mostly on them + greens with some mealworms as a treats. But our female is scared to death by even small roaches, so even if I'm still offering them to her she prefers to eat mealworms and that's okay with me too. And I totally agree about the UV topic with you too! :)
 

Gormagon

Extreme Poster
Well, I do believe that nothing is written in stone as far as care goes (all we can do is read what we can and make our own choices). I to have a female that is terrified of roaches as well "My Wife", lol!!! So if all Peaches could have to eat was roaches, I would have no Peaches and that would make me sad :cry: !!!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
My observations here in Australia (I'm sure other aussie keepers are here and will pipeup if I'm not right in my comments below.
Sylphie":17xkrq7m said:
#BeardieCareAroundTheWorld - Poland, Europe

As one person of facebook beardie group asked for info about what are the differences in care around the world I wrote that small post. Maybe someone here will find it interesting too! Below is some basic info from my country. I guess no one here knows polish, so I'll just write everything.

First thing that may be interesting for you is that for a whole country we're having only one reptile forum, so if anyone needs to rehome their beardies they know where to go. There is only one reptile rescue in a whole country and tbh they are mostly having snakes, tortoises and some iguanas. Beardies are one of the most "typical" newbie pets here too, but yet, problem with unwanted dragons is practically non-existent.

Husbandry:
As for dimensions it's the same as in US/UK, but here it must be wood/glass tank, and fish tanks are NO for most owners. They think that in fish tanks it's impossible to maintain a good humidity and ventilation... but there is also a lot of people that argue this, as we all know that with a proper setup even fish tank can have ideal conditions.
<<< here in Australia the standard tank for an adult beardie is 4ft x 2ft x at least 18in tall, and it's usually made from either:
- MDF
- plywood
Occasionally a mix of timber and Perspex is used.
Very few use fish tanks to house the beardies.

NO ONE USES tanks with mesh tops - all are solid tops (we achieve very good thermal gradients and achieve ventilation via plastic vents.
Typically access to the tank is via sliding glass doors (on the front) or via swing open doors.

Lighting&Temps are the same too, but here a spiral UV bulbs are totally okay to use (and that's what most of us use, as tubes are a looot more costly and harder to find).
<<<< compact 10% UVB globes are regarded as fine and used very frequently (often deployed in dome reflectors or in hoods like nano hoods, many use MVBs, others use T8 or T5 10% - 12% UVB tubes + a good quality par38 clear colourless spotty for basking.
Some provide overnight heating (via heatpads or CHEs).
Temps basking about 100degCelsius.

Substrate... sand is a no, coco peat are a no, but most of us are using coco bark (some big breeders prefer newspapers/tiles). Impactions are super rare, and if they occur it's mostly from peat, bad temps, bad diet.
<<< Some say dried screen playsand is OK even for hatchlings but there is no concensus on this and it's frequently debated on forums , concensus is that indigestible particulate is dangerous and not suitable for beardies (wood chips, sawdust, kritters' crumble, reptile sands and especially calcisand are NO NOs for beardies).

Many simply lay news print or paper towelling , other prefer loose laid wall or floor tiles.


In general we also prefer a natural type set-ups, so no beds, hammocks etc.
<<< hammocks are used by some , mostly the tanks a made to look a natural as possible. No one tucks the beardies in at night.

Diet:
These are probably the biggest differences. We don't have basics greens like collards, prickly pears etc. avaiable at all. The only thing from basic greens that US/UK are using are dandelions and alfalfa.
<<<< silkworms , crickets , woodies and superworms are most likely stable feeder.
BSF maggots are not very easy to locate here as a commercial food source.


Here the basic, everyday green diet are: dandelions, clovers, basil, melissa, alfalfa, Tradescantia... and some other "meadow" plants like plantain, white&purple dead-nettle, shepherd's purse and some others.<<< some of the greens and veg recommended in the BeautifulDragons list are not available commonly here.

As for fruits and veggies, thay are the same as in US/UK so I won't list them. The same for vitamins and calcium.<<<< very hard to find fruit like prickly pear here

But! As for worms diet, we are having roaches, crickets and mealworms easily avaiable so they are the basic worms we use. Some of the breeders don't like crickets couse they are mostly water and not very nutritient... Most of the big breeders are using mealworms as a basic for young beardies. We just put them in a bowl and beardies are having them all the time in their enclosure (like with greens) and can eat when they want. The curious thing is that I never saw/heard of a beardie that would eat all the mealworms at once and have health problems from that. Idk why but they are just eating 2-4 at a time and leaving rest until they are hungry again. I know that mealworms are fat food, but to be honest I never heard of an obese beardie or other health problems from that on our polish forum. When dragons are older they are having mostly roaches as they don't need as much worms food as small ones. Of course some breeders and keepers prefer to use just roaches couse they are afraid of impactions etc. But it's mostly just a personal preference, no one will be bashed if using mealworms.

Handling&keeping:

<<< no standing water in tanks

LONG DAY CYCLES ( 14 hours per day are common, and some 16 hours per day ).

<<<< keeping dragons in groups unless they are very very young hatchlings is not encouraged husbandry..

<<<< many keepers (where the beardies are family pets rather than just breeding stock) enrich their beardie's lives by allowing freerange funtime for the beardies each day if possible.

<<<< YF desease and atadenovirus are simply not issues here in Australia.

<<<< forgot to mention : the use of probiotics and pollen to supplement beardies here (in Australia) is very rare (I'd say unheard-of) unless prescribed by the vet for a sick beardie.




We love our dragons too so we spend a lot of time bonding etc., just like owners from other countries. But, what I find rather disturbing personally is that a lot of good breeders that are having really healthy dragons are recommending to co-hab them. It's common practice here to keep babies together, adult females together or even harems. And it wouldn't be so bad if they would mention that it's also normal for them to lose toes or tails couse of the "casual" bites here and there. But you would mostly hear that it's okay and they will be fine... I really can't understand why it's that way since like I said it's not like these breeders are the type of "only money is important", they really care for their animals and you can see that their overall health is excellent. This way our male was without two toes and a part of his tail when we bought him. And this way our female lost part of her toe too, couse I decied that since it's okay to keep them together all the time they won't "die" while in bath for a few minutes... So yeah, that's the point I can't really comprehend.
<<< only breeders generally keep hatchlings in groups (and only because it's not practical to house each and every little hatchling in it's own tub , the practice is to keep newly bought hatchlings /siblings together until dominance behaviour is noticed (generally) or it becomes apparent one is not thriving while the others are going fine , usual advise is to separate as soon as practical unless behaviour indicates separation is needed.
Adult beardies are not recommended to be kept in groups ( though some will try to house a group of similar sized females together BECAUSE TANKS ARE EXPENSIVE as are lighting and fittings cf in the USA (can be 2x the price of same stuff in the USA), the best practice is to house all beardies separately and only bring them together for brief courting and mating encounters.

The exception is rankins who are naturally more social and can and often are housed as breeding groups .

These are the basics, if you are having any questions feel free to ask them! Just remember that even if things are different here we love and care for our pets just as much as you! And they are as healthy and live as long too!

And please remember also that these are my personal research and not the way all people here are thinking. I'm sure some of them hate co-hab as much, or prefer to use beds and hammocks, or are hating mealworms and spiral bulbs. These info I posted are what you can find in care-sheets, articles and in general "you should do things like this" info that you'll hear from other keepers/breeders.

BIGGEST DIFFERENCES:
keepers must have either a native companion animal licence (allows ONE lizard to be kept) or a keepers licence to keep reptiles (more than one and you can breed and sell your reptiles) here , these are issued by the state governments and ARE NOT CHEAP to get , and you are required to keep records and all reptile movements (sold, bought, and the details of who with their licence no you sold to or bought from ,and to record when how reptiles are "disposed off - ie die)).

It's not open slather where anyone who has the money can walk into a pet shop and walkout with as many lizards as they want and can afford to buy ON IMPULSE - this simply can not happen here so many of the problems I see posted about here where lizards require rescuing from a incompetent keeper or from an abusive keeper are very rare here in Australia.

It is not legal to take your pet lizard on picnics , to the shops , to school etc here in Australia unless you obtain a display and movement permit. Only time a pet lizard is allowed to leave the home is to go to new home or to the vet.
It is permitted / recommended if safe to do so , to let beardies have fun time in the natural sunlight in the yard and many keeper do so (I wish I could but my yard is not beardie safe (excape proof and my neighbours have several large dogs who are known to kill wild lizards and there are free ranging pet cats around as well a large carnivorous birds such as wedgetail eagles and kookaburras about).

Most keepers obtain their pet lizards via licenced breeders and very rarely from pet shops. It is illegal to take wild reptiles for keeping in their collections or to breed (in some circumstances it is permissible to keep rescued reptiles (who have been injured) , and if it can never survive in the wild on account it's disabilities or injuries , it can be kept as a pet.
Pet shops have only recently (the last couple of years) been permitted to stock live reptiles and very few are set up to do so or bother here in NSW.

No exotic reptiles here , strictly illegal to import them.

Cheapest beardies I've heard about here in Australia were either Easterns , Centrals or Rankins with basic colours (yellow or red or orange colour) and normal scales for $80.

Eastern water dragons sell for about the same price as do common eastern bluetongue skinks.

Unlike the UK and USA, no one offers vet insurance for pet reptiles here.
 

Sylphie

Member
Original Poster
kingofnoobys, thank you for your response! Care in Australia seems to be more similiar to that in Poland than to US/UK version. And I forgot that we don't have prickly pears too!

In some ways I really think that the Australia law are great and should be the same everywhere. It really takes a lot more effort to get a licenses and everything, and so all the people that are not suited and don't really want it with all their hearth wouldn't get animals as easily. And in Poland we don't take our animals outside too, there is no laws about it, but it's really bashed by everyone in the community.
But on the other hand I really can't imagine having only endemic reptiles as in Poland we're having only 3 snake species (one is venoumous) and a few lizards and frogs!


Gormagon, I believe that too! The best way is to get a lot of opinions and informations from everyone and see what's most important :)
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Sylphie":1m2nxaay said:
kingofnoobys, thank you for your response! Care in Australia seems to be more similiar to that in Poland than to US/UK version. And I forgot that we don't have prickly pears too!

In some ways I really think that the Australia law are great and should be the same everywhere. It really takes a lot more effort to get a licenses and everything, and so all the people that are not suited and don't really want it with all their hearth wouldn't get animals as easily. And in Poland we don't take our animals outside too, there is no laws about it, but it's really bashed by everyone in the community.
But on the other hand I really can't imagine having only endemic reptiles as in Poland we're having only 3 snake species (one is venoumous) and a few lizards and frogs!


Gormagon, I believe that too! The best way is to get a lot of opinions and informations from everyone and see what's most important :)

We have a wide range of snakes (pythons and vemonous snakes) , legless lizards, skinks (large and small), dragons, geckos, monitors (some very large and dangerous) and even indigenous crocodiles (some even have these as pets), as well as frog and toads here.
These restrictions on reptile imports (unless you are a zoo) are to protect our special native reptile pooplations from deseases prevalent in other countries and in captive breeding programs so comely see in places like the USA.
.
Most people have some resident wild frogs , skinks , even dragons and geckos in their gardens (even visiting inside the house). Very much lizard territory here even in winter. Even in our biggest cities of Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne even miles from the local areas of bushland and farmland and national parks.

I have delicate brown garden skinks and eastern water skinks living under my house and in my garden and in my shed, and regularly see jacky dragons, eastern water dragons, and bluetongue skinks pay visits to my garden as well as tree frogs and occasionally even see marbled geckos (at night).
 

Sylphie

Member
Original Poster
Yeah, knowing the Australia history with rabbits I totally understand and agree with the policies of only endemic species being permitted. And seeing what happens in US with burmese pythons it's really good that you're having your laws in place. But like you said you're having a plenty of deifferent species, so even with these restrictions everyone still can find something for themselves. Here it would basically kill the reptile keeping as with only a two snake species (keeping venoumous is illegall here) and a few lizards and frogs there would be practically no choice. Yet I'm still thinking that your laws are good and should be applied in other countries, especially the ones with licensing and special permits.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Sylphie":2htmln0d said:
Yeah, knowing the Australia history with rabbits I totally understand and agree with the policies of only endemic species being permitted. And seeing what happens in US with burmese pythons it's really good that you're having your laws in place. But like you said you're having a plenty of deifferent species, so even with these restrictions everyone still can find something for themselves. Here it would basically kill the reptile keeping as with only a two snake species (keeping venoumous is illegall here) and a few lizards and frogs there would be practically no choice. Yet I'm still thinking that your laws are good and should be applied in other countries, especially the ones with licensing and special permits.


Yep .... feral animals :
cats in particular and free range domestic cats are huge problem here
as are
foxes (introduced)
feral horses (esp in the high country)
feral pigs
feral camels (esp in the centre)
rabbits
feral goats
European rats
European mice
feral dogs
cane toads (huge danger - killed off entire populations of large lizards, even killed crocs, and some marsupial predators and predatory birds are being killed when they eat these toxic toads

are all high level vermin here.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Another aspect of beardie (reptile) keeping here in Australia that other countries is the restriction on moving reptiles across state borders , this can be done but a permit to "import" or "export" a reptile from one state to another is required from the receiving state and a fee is payable.
Some states will not permit imports from another state at all (ie Western Australia will not allow this) , not sure if it's permitted to send these interstate , so keepers in WA can only have reptiles indigenous in their state , but they do have the option to take some reptiles from the wild but must not sell these wild caught reptiles on, I think they can sell the offspring though (????).


It's generally verboten to interfere in any way with wild reptiles here (the exceptions being "snake capture services who relocate wild snakes from peoples' homes and gardens) , not permitted to even remove a reptile in danger on the roadside (though many will relocate these irrespective of the legal ramifications if it's safe for them to physically do so).
This doesn't seem to stop keeper Herpers who will go "on herping expeditions" to take photos of wild reptiles and who will interfere with their habitat (flip refuse / rubbish, logs, bits of bark, boulders and will even capture reptiles to pose them for "best" photos.... strictly illegal.
 

Sylphie

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":2nevl032 said:
It's generally verboten to interfere in any way with wild reptiles here (the exceptions being "snake capture services who relocate wild snakes from peoples' homes and gardens) , not permitted to even remove a reptile in danger on the roadside (though many will relocate these irrespective of the legal ramifications if it's safe for them to physically do so).
This doesn't seem to stop keeper Herpers who will go "on herping expeditions" to take photos of wild reptiles and who will interfere with their habitat (flip refuse / rubbish, logs, bits of bark, boulders and will even capture reptiles to pose them for "best" photos.... strictly illegal.

It's somewhat similiar in Poland. ALL reptiles are considered under the protection as their populations aren't too big, so no catching them, no wild-caught pets (the penalties are really high). And in my opinion it's really good. On the other hand those import/export rules seems to be pretty harsh... but I also undersand that since all you can have are endemic reptiles then putting them in totally different part of Australia could be very dangerous for environment stability.
 
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