Beard turned very dark black and tongue is slightly yellow!!

[flojomojo]

Hi, I've had my beardie for about 6 months now. He's been healthy and active. We had an impaction scare at one point in time but he recuperated really well. This was 3-4 months ago. Last night was the first time we've noticed his beard turn black. I mean, completely black and there was also a slight blackening on the sides of the body. He's been eating slightly, but not as much as he usually does. He eats 1000 crickets a week (2 week olds) and lettuce - he eats 3 times a day. The darkening occured a few hours after I fed him and has never happened before. Haven't changed his eating habits nor his lighting. We took him out today and let him sit with us for a couple of hours and he seemed to do better. I've read on a few sites that he might be upset and that's why this is happening. I just don't understand what could upset him. Nothing has changed. His poop is also a little runnier than usual. We're worried that he might have worms. We live in Louisiana, so it's always hot down here. Also, there are no actual vets that know anything or take care of reptiles. Looked for medicine online to prevent worm infestation, but couldn't find anything.
Please advise!
Thank you!

T-Rex

 

[crickest]

Couple of things first. . .

Can you give us a run down on your set up. . .
What size tank is he in?
What brand and type of UVB bulb are you using? How long has it been since it was changed?
What are the basking and cool side temps? How are you taking the temps?

The answers to these questions can help determine what might be causing the issue, or can rule out some of the more obvious issues.

The first thing I would suggest is not feeding lettuce. It can cause runny poo in beardies and isn't real high in the necessary vitamins. There is a really great list of things that are recommended for beardies to eat at http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html This list details all of the nutrients in the food and how often you can feed it.

If you really think you have worms, you can take a fecal sample into any vet and ask them to check for worms. Once you get the results back from the fecal you can ask a moderator on this site for help in treating your beardie. There is also a list of herp vets by location listed in a thread on this site. Just do a search for herp vets and it should show up.

Now I have a question about him darkening his beard. . . was it pitch black or was it just dark, like a dark grey? If it was a dark grey, that's normal. Dragons do that as they mature. I have a six month old dragon and he turns his beard dark when he's pissed at me (like when I'm late to feed him) or when he's unhappy with me (like when I move things in his viv) or when he gets angry or stressed at the dragon staring in his viv (his reflection). When his beard goes dark he sometimes has a dark grey chest and belly. These are known as his stress marks. This is one of the ways our dragons communicate with us and each other.

Hope this helps.

 

[flojomojo]

What size tank is he in?
He is in a 20 gallon tank. Building him a bigger one. We thought that this would be a reason why he might be unhappy. He has his own little house and a small tree limb to climb on and get closer to his heat bulb if he so prefers. Watter bowl and green bowl on the colder side.
What brand and type of UVB bulb are you using? How long has it been since it was changed?
I have a heat bulb - Exo Terra 75 Watt. We had a 150 and a 100 before and he seemed to be too hot. And also a UVB light. Can't remember the brand.
What are the basking and cool side temps? How are you taking the temps?
The basking side runs usually around 90-100 degrees and the cool side around 70-80.

Just checked on him and his beard is back to normal. Weird. The color was pitch black. He has some grey around his beard area. I wouldn't have been so scared if it was just grey.
Thank you for replying so quickly!

 

[Sangster]

dang...he's a little piggy huh? 1000 crix a week?! 142 per day......48 crickets 3 time a day...wow! I've see posts where folks are feeding UP to 100 per day, but more than that.

better keep an eye on that or you'll have an overweight BD when he gets older!

 

[crickest]

Pitch black is an indicator that something more serious is going on. Especially if it happens frequently.

Can you check the brand of UVB bulb you have? The reason I ask, is that a lot of UVB bulbs can cause health issues with beardies and I lost my first one, in part, because of the UVB bulb I was using. Also, if its been more than 6 months since it was changed, it might not be putting out good UVB any more. It is recommended that the UVB bulb be changed every six months.

I would suggest watching your beardie over the next few days and seeing if he goes pitch black again. I would also strongly suggest getting a fecal done (just take the poo into any vet and ask them to run a fecal. Make sure you have the exact information from the vet and then come here and have Tracey or Diane help you with the diagnosis.)

Let us know what you find out.

 

[flojomojo]

dang...he's a little piggy huh? 1000 crix a week?! 142 per day......48 crickets 3 time a day...wow! I've see posts where folks are feeding UP to 100 per day, but more than that.

better keep an eye on that or you'll have an overweight BD when he gets older!

It's the 2 week olds. They're tiny. You made me laugh. He IS a little piggy! All my pets are. I also have 2 dogs and 2 cats. I can monitor the mammals food better though. You know how they are: they eat as much as you give them. But my beardie gets mad at me and gives me "the look" if I don't feed him at his set times or as much as he wants. I spoil him too much!

 

[flojomojo]

Pitch black is an indicator that something more serious is going on. Especially if it happens frequently.

Can you check the brand of UVB bulb you have? The reason I ask, is that a lot of UVB bulbs can cause health issues with beardies and I lost my first one, in part, because of the UVB bulb I was using. Also, if its been more than 6 months since it was changed, it might not be putting out good UVB any more. It is recommended that the UVB bulb be changed every six months.

I would suggest watching your beardie over the next few days and seeing if he goes pitch black again. I would also strongly suggest getting a fecal done (just take the poo into any vet and ask them to run a fecal. Make sure you have the exact information from the vet and then come here and have Tracey or Diane help you with the diagnosis.)

Let us know what you find out.

I change the bulbs every couple of months. This is the 4th one in the 6 months I've had him. It's the same brand I've used since the beginning. The beard turning black hasn't happened at all until last night.

 

[flojomojo]

He has stopped eating today. Took him out of his aquarium today, held him and covered him. He seemed to do a little better. Gave him a bath and he drank some water. But he is refusing any type of food: veggies or crickets. Spoke with a vet in a close city today that works for the zoo and he said that he should be fine and that he is probably just upset. We went through every symptom. He said to wait a couple of days since he's going back and forth between normal and black and i he's still doing it to bring him in. His tongue is really yellow.
I am really worried!!!! :?

 

[diamc]

Hi, I agree with crickest that all these symptoms could indeed be something very serious. Even though he only had the very dark black beard the one time, he isn't eating, has a slightly yellow tongue, and a runny poop. Beardies are very good at masking illness and when they show these signs, you need to act quickly. I would suggest that you have him checked asap at a reptile vet. I had a beardie that was under 2 yrs old that passed away in only 2 days of showing any type of symptoms at all! So, it can happen very quickly.

Even though you've used the same brand of UVB since the beginning, he could only now be showing that it is causing him some problems so filling us in on the brand & type & also how far away it is from him, might be helpful. Also, how old is he? What are the tank temps and what type of thermometer are you using to check them? How often are you using calcium & vitamin supplements? Is he lethargic? Is his tail and/or beard any darker in color than the rest of him? What greens are you feeding? Answering these questions will help rule some of these things out. We know you are worried, we're just trying to help you figure out what's going on.

 

[flojomojo]

Hi, I agree with crickest that all these symptoms could indeed be something very serious. Even though he only had the very dark black beard the one time, he isn't eating, has a slightly yellow tongue, and a runny poop. Beardies are very good at masking illness and when they show these signs, you need to act quickly. I would suggest that you have him checked asap at a reptile vet. I had a beardie that was under 2 yrs old that passed away in only 2 days of showing any type of symptoms at all! So, it can happen very quickly.

Even though you've used the same brand of UVB since the beginning, he could only now be showing that it is causing him some problems so filling us in on the brand & type & also how far away it is from him, might be helpful. Also, how old is he? What are the tank temps and what type of thermometer are you using to check them? How often are you using calcium & vitamin supplements? Is he lethargic? Is his tail and/or beard any darker in color than the rest of him? What greens are you feeding? Answering these questions will help rule some of these things out. We know you are worried, we're just trying to help you figure out what's going on.

The UVB is a Reptasun Full Spectrum. The basking light is 6" away from him from the tallest point he can reach from inside his aquarium and the uvb is as high as the height of the aquarium I gues a foot, maybe a foot and a half. The thermometer is a digital Fluker's. The tank temp in the basking area is between 90-100 and on the other side 70-80. We think he is about 8 months old. We've had him for 6 months and when we got him he was as big as my finger. The supplement is a complete powder one from Flukers. We dust the veggies every day lightly. He doesn't seem lethargic, actually let me rephrase this. He is very active when we take him out of the aquarium, and when he's inside, his head is up and he's looking around like he always does. The tail is not darker than the rest of him. He has a slight grey on the sides of his beard - that's his usual color. Just turned on his heating blanket. It's not the one made for reptiles because my husband has had several mishaps in the past with them with his reptiles getting burned on them. This one is a lot safer and it turns itself off every two hours. Right now the temp in the basking area is 100 degrees. I also partially covered up the top of the aquarium so there's no draft coming in, but it's stil ventilated.
Thank you for your help!

 

[crickest]

One thing that stands out is the distance from the UVB to the dragon. It should be 6 - 8 inches from the basking spot (same as your basking light, it sounds like). The Repti-sun is a good bulb. Is it a 10.0? The 10.0 give out the best UVB. You might try fixing the UVB inside the viv, about 12 - 16 " from the floor and about 6" from your dragon's favorite basking spot. The lack of UVB can cause lack of appetitte, lethargy, inconsistent poos, etc.

I am not familiar with the fluker's supplement - does it have calcium without phosphorous but with D3? That is what you need to supplement with when using a flouresant tube. (If you use a MVB you want calcium that doesn't include D3).

Finally, your beardie doesn't need a heating blanket. Unless the viv is colder than 65 degrees at night, your baby will be just fine. The desert gets cold at night and beardies like to be on the cooler side when they sleep. I would remove the blanket completely and not even have it in his viv. (You could save it for those cold winter days when you want to snuggle the dragon).

Those were the things that jumped out at me as perhaps being a contributing factor in his beard going dark. I'm sure Diane will be able to supply additional information (the stuff I don't know yet :lol: )

 

[diamc]

Hi again, does the digital Fluker's thermometer have a probe end? Is this the product you're using? http://www.petstore.com/ps_ViewItem-category-Fluker_Labs_Fluker_Repta_Calcium_8_oz_Vitamins_Calcium_for_Reptiles-vendor-Fluker_Farms-idProduct-FK73006-idCategory-RPHCVI.html If so, I don't see where it says that it contains D3 but no phosphorus. Might be something to think about.

Is it the Repti-Sun UVB you're using or the Reptasun? On this site, there is a graph down below that shows the output of the Reptasun if that's what you're using and it doesn't look like it puts out enough to really be beneficial to a beardie. http://www.anapsid.org/gehrman2.html The fluorescent bulb should be 6 to 8" from him, rather than 1 to 1 1/2 ft as that won't give him enough UV rays to be beneficial. The UVB and basking bulb should be right alongside each other so he can get the benefit of both bulbs while he is basking.

What greens are you feeding him? Have you taken a fecal to be checked for parasites?

 

[crickest]

Question for clarification: How tall is your viv?

In rereading your post I may have misunderstood. I read it that the UVB was 12 - 18" from the basking spot. I think now, you meant it was that distance from the bottom of the viv. If that is the case, then is the basking spot about 6" from the UVB? If so, that should be fine. I was thinking (in my mind which sometimes plays tricks just for fun) that you had a really tall viv. Sorry.

If that is the case, I'm back to the "take him to the vet". Maybe Diane has some better ideas.

 

[flojomojo]

Hi again, does the digital Fluker's thermometer have a probe end? Is this the product you're using? http://www.petstore.com/ps_ViewItem-category-Fluker_Labs_Fluker_Repta_Calcium_8_oz_Vitamins_Calcium_for_Reptiles-vendor-Fluker_Farms-idProduct-FK73006-idCategory-RPHCVI.html If so, I don't see where it says that it contains D3 but no phosphorus. Might be something to think about.

Is it the Repti-Sun UVB you're using or the Reptasun? On this site, there is a graph down below that shows the output of the Reptasun if that's what you're using and it doesn't look like it puts out enough to really be beneficial to a beardie. http://www.anapsid.org/gehrman2.html The fluorescent bulb should be 6 to 8" from him, rather than 1 to 1 1/2 ft as that won't give him enough UV rays to be beneficial. The UVB and basking bulb should be right alongside each other so he can get the benefit of both bulbs while he is basking.

What greens are you feeding him? Have you taken a fecal to be checked for parasites?

The vitamin I'm using looks close to that but it's not the same. It doesn't have the little lizard on the box. It's cold Fluker's Repta-Vitamin with Beta-Carotene and it's a multi-vitamin that contains amongst others D3 and Phosphorus. I would of shown you a picture, but I couldn't find it online.
I just looked at the UVB and it's a Reptasun. I will go out today and look for the Reptisun 10.0 that everyone is recomending. I will also move the two lights together. If I move it next to the basking light that it's going to be closer to him.
I'm feeding him squash right now. Was eating lettuce before, lightly dusted with the vitamins. He is refusing to eat anything though.
Haven't taken the fecal to the doctor yet. He said I should wait. I'm going a little crazy here. I might just not listen to him and just bring it to my regular vet and check it.
thank you so much for your help!

 

[flojomojo]

Question for clarification: How tall is your viv?

In rereading your post I may have misunderstood. I read it that the UVB was 12 - 18" from the basking spot. I think now, you meant it was that distance from the bottom of the viv. If that is the case, then is the basking spot about 6" from the UVB? If so, that should be fine. I was thinking (in my mind which sometimes plays tricks just for fun) that you had a really tall viv. Sorry.

If that is the case, I'm back to the "take him to the vet". Maybe Diane has some better ideas.

Yes I meant from the bottom of the vivarium, but I wasn't keeping the two lights together. I will change that though. And yes, they are 6" away from each other. That should be fine? or should I put them side by side?
Woke up this morning and he was sleeping. Moved his head and looked at me with "the look" telling me he wants to sleep more. His beard was normal. Keeping my fingers crossed.