BD seems ill, petstore said put him 3-4 inches under light?

[iamkristen]

Not sure if my boyfriend may have already posted here. He (we) recently got a bearded dragon who seemed to be doing fine the first few days until Thursday night/Friday morning. He stopped eating at all (veggies or crickets) and just stayed under the heat lamp with his eyes closed all the time. The digital therm. is measuring about 70-75 in the tank and 110 at the probe which was on a rock about a foot under the heat lamp, where he has been.

This is what we have tried so far..

Upgraded from 10gal to 20 long tank, cleaned tank and all decor.

Upgraded heat lamp to 100 watt bulb, increasing the basking temp from abt 98 to 110.

2 warm baths, one with 1/2 pedialyte 1/2 warm water

tried offering him veggies and crickets directly

tried a fresh batch of baby crickets from a different petstore

We also paid to talk to a reptile vet online, who recommended taking to the vet as it could be a health problem that was already present. Of course there aren't any open in our area this weekend. We called the pet store for advice, as they do have a return promise. Of course I don't just want a NEW dragon, I want OURS to get better! The employee told me that he needed to be 3-4 inches away from the light, and that the probe temp is only the temp of the surface of the rock, and it's the air around that needs to be 110 degrees. Also the vet online said for babies, the temp needs to be close to 125 in the basking area.

Everything else I have heard/read said NOT to let a bearded dragon get this close to the light, as we had him about 12 inches under. I'm desperate, so we put the tallest rock we have under the light, which puts him about 4 inches under it. The tall peak is very small, he is having trouble staying on it. BUT at least he is squirming and trying and has his eyes open. It has also been runny when he's gone to the bathroom the last few days, and he just went despite having not eaten in two days.

Does this sound like he has been too cold to digest his food?
Can he safely be 4 inches under the light? If so, when is he "too old" to be 4 inches under the light? Do we gradually buy shorter and shorter rocks?
If so, should I just buy a better/flatter tall rock for him to hang out on?
How long should he bask each day (should it be an ALL DAY thing)?

The employee advised me that if it is this problem, putting him directly under the light should not take long for him to perk up. If this is the case, would he be fine from here on out? Any other suggestions?

If the basking temperature air truly does need to be 110, what should the probe on the rock's surface indicate?

I apologize for seeming so clueless, I just really want this little guy to get better, or at least do everything I can to try.

THANK YOU IN ADVANCE FOR ANY ADVICE/OPINION!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

First off, where online, did this vet say that the temps needed to be what you have written in this post? That is most definitely not right. That will result in a cooked lizard.
The basking light that you are using, should be 6-8 inches away from your dragon. So the basking temp of 110 is fine. The recommended basking temps are 95-110, with a cooler side of around 78-82. The ambient temps should be no higher than 85 so he can thermoregulate without getting overheated.
That is incorrect information regarding the probe & how it measures. It is not really measuring the rock that it is placed on, but measures the heat coming straight down on it from the bulb. It is basically measuring the basking temp. You will need to get a temp gun to measure the "surface" of the rock if you would like to know the surface temperatures of the areas on & around his basking spot. If the air around the basking area is 110 he would be cooking as the surface temperature would probably be around 115-120. We keep ours at a basking of around 103, with the surface temps being 107 or so. The ambient average temps are around 82 or 83, overall in the tank with it being just slightly higher in the basking area. We do not use high heat.
****The temps of 125 are designed for Uros & Monitors NOT bearded dragons, so, they are terribly mistaken. Please do not take that advice.
Is the basking light a bright white light or a colored light?
Do you have a UVB light? If so what type is it, a flourescent tube bulb or a compact or coil light?
Seeing that he came from a petstore, I would recommend getting a fecal done. However, how long have you had him for? Remember, that they do go through a relocation stress for 1-2 weeks after bringing them home. So, I would put off the fecal for another week to let him settle in a little more.
I would take the aspen bedding out right now & replace it with non adhesive shelf liner or paper towels. They can get impacted easily. Speaking of substrate, do you remember what he was kept on at the petstore, sand? If so he could also be impacted, & he probably has parasites too if he was housed with multiple dragons. Runny & smelly stools do indicate parasites or worms.
He needs to have a 12 hour day cycle with a 12 hour night cycle so he can grow.
Do you have calcium supplementation? At his age, he needs calcium 5 times per week.
Let us know how he is doing today.

Tracie

 

[iamkristen]

I am very saddened to say that "Google" did not make it. I tried everything I could although my boyfriend was primarily the one taking care of him, so I know he knew more than me, but he was not here today, so I was doing all I could.

I never let the temperature get to 125, although I did place a tall rock about 5 inches under the light, he seemed to perk up, eyes open and move around on the rock some. The temperature of the probe where he was laying never even got past 110. I think it peaked around 100. He kept falling off the rock, I was going to get a new tall rock that was flat, as this was more like a mountain. But the 100 watt uvb bulb started to melt the top plastic and glue on the new aquarium. I called my boyfriend's mom to come over so she could help me move him back to his 10 gal he was in until yesterday and keep an eye on the hot lights until I could come back with the new flat rock. I was also going to make a video clip of him to bring to the pet store.

He would try to climb and fall off and every time he fell off he would open his mouth like he was mad. He also would land upside down occassionally but I really couldn't tell if he was falling off or getting off the rock. Since he seemed to be doing better, I let him lay on the floor near the rock for awhile, thinking he was cooling off. The last time that I went to pick him up to place him back on the rock I could tell he was extremely stiff. I looked at him on the rock and knew... He was not breathing. I was desperate and tried to spray a little bottled water on him but he was already gone. I double checked by tapping him several times. I checked about 30 mins later and another hour, he is gone.

I could not remove him today so I just turned off the light, but I feel so bad. I don't know if I forced him back in the heat when he was too warm. But, when he seemed to perk up I thought for sure he had been too cool to digest his food as he had not eaten in 2 days.
Also, he walked up to the tank and open his mouth and shook and I don't know if that was good or bad. I thought maybe he had gotten one small cricket that I put in there, but I didn't see him eat it. The woman at the petstore said that may have been why he did that, but I don't remember seeing him do that when previously eating a cricket.

Like I said, my boyfriend picked him out and had been the primary caregiver, so I may have done something wrong. I don't know what to do, I don't know why he died but I do feel so bad, and it has really affected me. I am sorry.

 

[wizbee]

Oh that's too bad, sorry for your loss.

 

[iamkristen]

If you have any opinion as to what happened. I would like to know. I feel so guilty as if I had done something wrong. The thing is after 2 days of not eating and not moving, he finally got some energy, I was so sure he was going to be OKAY, then he just suddenly died... I am so saddened by his passing that I'm sure we can't get another one for a while. Just wondering if we should even try again or if we should just sell the stuff. I don't want to hurt another one if this was my fault. I thought that my boyfriend had researched every possible aspect of it. He knew to use reptisun 10, nothing that could be swallowed such as sand, 110 in the basking area with a UVB for light, no lettuce, only leafy greens and occasional fruit, nothing bigger that between his eyes for food, fresh water with warm baths every now and then, no heat rocks or undertank heaters.... i don't know what happened....

 

[beardie parents]

It may not have been your fault. Sometimes beardies are born with problems that aren't detectable.
I'm sorry you lost him. I know how you feel as of last October we had lost 4 in a 2 year period. Only one was something we didn't do that we should have. The first two we lost because we didn't know this site existed. Miss Redrock was a freak accident that had me blaming myself. You will be able to find another one to love. I always have as we can't see not having a beardie in our lives.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry that you lost him. It is very hard to determine why he passed away. Perhaps he did get overheated, or he might have had parasites, there is just no telling.
We are all here if you need us.

Tracie