Bazinga! I got a blue tongue skink! =o

[ShannyBeard]

Yeah, Gail I got ya. I got hit in the face when I was 15 by a lady who beat a horse I used to own when I stood up against her for the way she treated him. She boasted to my face that she beat him. I was asked to go out and ride him to prove that he was a good horse, which I did. My parents couldn't afford to buy him back. I rode him just fine, and the lady got in my face. I used the F-word when she got in my face and told her off, and she hit me pretty hard against the side of my face and my eye. This was in front of my Mom. Well, they raised kids differently back then and I got it from my Mom for the F-word, and then my Dad, who was a man to be feared. They said the lady had every right to hit me.

Never heard what happened to that horse, all I know is I got beat a few times for getting upset over an abused animal that I loved. I'd get beat again by that horrible fat lady, my Mom, and my Dad, I don't care. Anyone who neglects an animal is a monster, and beats an animal is a coward. :silent:

 

[Jess]

I saw someone today who was wearing a shirt that said "BAZINGA!" and I thought of you and your skink! Haha. :mrgreen:

I agree with both of you, Shanny and Gail. Not that I have a ton of personal experience myself, but my first rescue taught me to stay away from meds unless absolutely necessary, and Dudley has proved that beardies know how to take care of them selves for the most part. Eating a bug bigger than the space between their eyes won't automatically impact them, a healthy adult can easily go a week without eating, it's not a sin to withhold bugs until they eat their veggies, and you can't just "guess" with medication. It's a lot more fun to have a reptile if you don't worry about them 24/7, because it usually isn't necessary.
Some certain really young new members who give crappy "advice" are really getting on my nerves. There is a huge difference between spitting out stuff you've heard from other people, and having actual experience.
I try to be nice to people- Since they came here for advice, they usually want to help their beardie. But if they only listen to people who tell them what they want to hear, I don't know why they even bother posting.

 

[ShannyBeard]

I saw someone today who was wearing a shirt that said "BAZINGA!" and I thought of you and your skink! Haha. :mrgreen:

I agree with both of you, Shanny and Gail. Not that I have a ton of personal experience myself, but my first rescue taught me to stay away from meds unless absolutely necessary, and Dudley has proved that beardies know how to take care of them selves for the most part. Eating a bug bigger than the space between their eyes won't automatically impact them, a healthy adult can easily go a week without eating, it's not a sin to withhold bugs until they eat their veggies, and you can't just "guess" with medication. It's a lot more fun to have a reptile if you don't worry about them 24/7, because it usually isn't necessary.

Jess you are just so awesome. You are an asset to this forum, that is for sure. I feel the same as you about everything that I bolded here. From what I can tell from my own beardies and just watching them, as long as they are healthy and have the right temps, correct heat and availibility of basking area, and correct UV lighting, they will be fine. I don't monitor every bite of food my dragons eat. I would if they were little babies, and we did back then, but part of that is a little selfish because I wanted them to grow BIG. :lol: I wanted to make sure they got 100% of what they needed for that to happen.
But, you are so right - I don't worry if they don't eat what I want them to eat every day.

When I had to move their vivs and Scarlet got all weird on me and was hiding and sleeping on the cold side and not eating or pooping, I let her be. She did it for a good week. Yeah I wished she would have just rolled with the punches and acted normal, yes I worried a teeny bit LOL, but she got over it and she's fine now.

Even my rescue - yesterday he was difficult eating his breakfast and I didn't have a lot of time, so he was a hungry boy all day. *shrug* He made up for it this morning. :mrgreen:

FUNNY about the Bazinga! shirt. The name still makes me laugh. He is Buzzy for short.

 

[Jess]

Well thanks. I think my posts have been a little crabby lately (It's SO much fun to deal with ignorant people at the pet store, and then come home and read through all this... :roll: ) but at this point I don't really care. Sometimes you need to be blunt to get the point across.

Same, I was really OCD about monitoring EVERYTHING Wink ate when I was a new beardie owner. He was sick, so it was understandable, but it completely sucks all the enjoyment out of having one. Dudley eats what he wants to eat, and I know that he doesn't usually eat at all the day after he gets his bugs. If I try to get him to eat food when he doesn't want it, it just makes him resent it a little more. I don't give him bugs until I've seen a noticeable amount of salad gone either. If he isn't hungry enough for salad, then he sure won't starve to death if he doesn't get bugs for a few days. I'm sure it sounds "mean" to some people, but he has been SO much more active and healthy since I've started feeding him this way, and I've been able to keep his weight at 500g.

Once you have them for a while, you will get to know their schedules and what sets them off too. Dud always brumates in August like clockwork, and I expect him not to eat for a week if I change his food dishes LOL. If something was truly off of course I would worry about him, but beardies are hardier than most people give them credit for.

I think we need more Buzzy pics, BTW! :wink:

 

[Gail]

You are so right about everything. People would have had a heart attack if they knew how I fed Pig, I started supers when she was 10" and adult dubia when she was around 14". Unless you have a little baby or a dragon that doesn't chew, bigger feeders aren't going to hurt it. I also feed mealworms :whip:

The younger members who parrot everything they read drive me mad. There is one person who's most common advice is "sounds like stress", if dragons got that stressed over every little thing, they wouldn't have survived in the wild.
Blaming 90% of a dragon problem on UVB is another thing that bothers me. Of course its very important but come on, it doesn't make a dragon mean or get fat. Oh and babies are supposed to eat greens from day one not "don't worry about it until they are older"

Its sad that the people who love dragons the most are the ones who are damaging the species the most. Half of the dragon on this board I would never want to see bred. They are immune compromised, fat, sickly beasties and the owners think they are the picture of health.
Every dragon I've bough from a breeder who came from established bloodlines and who raised as a spoiled, catered to baby ended up dead within 2 years. The healthiest dragon I ever owned was pig, she came from a back yard breeder who had no idea what he was doing and provided minimum care. She eat her greens voraciously, is active and acts like a lizard, not a non moving hand fed stuffed animal.

 

[Jess]

I started supers at 13" with Wink and he was fine. I also fed him mealworms, but I made sure that they weren't a huge part of his diet... My biggest thing with mealies is that they aren't the best nutritionally, but a couple here and there won't kill your beardie assuming that they have the proper temps to digest and stuff.

I know I'm guilty about of having a fat beardie, but I've been trying hard to keep him weight down. I think supers were the biggest culprit with Dud's weight and lazyness. Dud has a weird build though, so it's hard to tell whether he is actually overweight or not sometimes. It bugs me when people say that beardies aren't fat until their bellies are dragging on the ground. :roll: I mean, really? At that point, I'd be counting down the minutes until the beardie keeled over from liver failure or something.

 

[TASTIGER]

You are so right about everything. People would have had a heart attack if they knew how I fed Pig, I started supers when she was 10" and adult dubia when she was around 14"

yay im not the only one :silent:

 

[ShannyBeard]

I think my posts have been a little crabby lately (It's SO much fun to deal with ignorant people at the pet store, and then come home and read through all this... :roll: ) but at this point I don't really care. Sometimes you need to be blunt to get the point across.

I think we need more Buzzy pics, BTW! :wink:

I can only imagine. I have been at our local rep shop and just hanging out waiting until the crowds died down so I could have my time with the staff, and heard some terrible stuff. One kid brought in 2 about 4 month old beardies and was asking questions about substrate and why was one so small, and when were talking about cohabitation maybe being the reason,etc he said he didn't plan on having more than one tank because he didn't have the room. They were both in a 10 gallon.

And yes, if Buzzy wasn't such a total jerk yesterday we would have more pics. He was a cranky boy so we left him alone.. :roll:

People would have had a heart attack if they knew how I fed Pig, I started supers when she was 10" and adult dubia when she was around 14". Unless you have a little baby or a dragon that doesn't chew, bigger feeders aren't going to hurt it. I also feed mealworms :whip:

Blaming 90% of a dragon problem on UVB is another thing that bothers me. Of course its very important but come on, it doesn't make a dragon mean or get fat. Oh and babies are supposed to eat greens from day one not "don't worry about it until they are older"

Otto and I were just talking about supers last night. He said he felt Ginger, Scarlet and Papa Smurf were fine and big enough by now or at least the girls were getting big enough, but I just can't imagine giving them such big worms! Am I a bad beardie mommy? They are getting to the 15" size range by now. I'm just scared if they do have a problem or get impacted I don't want to deal with it. And I hate mealworms. I don't even feed them to my gecko. They sit in a fridge for weeks at a time in bran - how is that nutritious? I'm really on the fence about that.

And with babies and greens - yeah they are supposed to eat them from day one, true. But is it wrong that I don't want them to fill up on their greens? :| There was a store employee or owner who recently posted their feeding schedule here and 3 of the 7 days were greens/salad only, 2 of the days were feeders, and one of the days was no food at all. How is a baby dragon going to grow on that diet? And in thinking of what would make a baby grow, wouldn't that be a lot of feeders and protein? I don't want them filling up on salad, so I don't worry about them not eating their greens so much as babies. I feel like if they take a few bites, great. I would rather tell someone not to really worry about the babies not eating salad instead of some of the things I see people say, like withholding feeders. Not as babies - I don't think that's a good strategy.

I have no problems withholding feeders to adults to get them to eat salad. We have that going on with our 700+ gram 3 year old female. Just got her a few months ago and she is a protein hog. Otto has been giving her tough love pretty hard lately. I did that to Papa Smurf yesterday because he won't eat his dang salad. Even though he is still underweight, I just needed him to try and eat some squash, and he did. Reluctantly.


Then again, all this talk of micro-managing their diets makes me tired. Just like previously said, we shouldn't worry about every little thing. I think if we provide them the correct balance of diet, they will eat it, and they will be fine. Or at least I would like to think so. :silent:

 

[TASTIGER]

There was a store employee or owner who recently posted their feeding schedule here and 3 of the 7 days were greens/salad only, 2 of the days were feeders, and one of the days was no food at all. How is a baby dragon going to grow on that diet? And in thinking of what would make a baby grow, wouldn't that be a lot of feeders and protein?

i know i saw that and i was like uhmm that doesnt sound right. i always offer salad in the morning with some worms buried underneath. then give them crickets/ roaches later on in the day. (for babies)

 

[ShannyBeard]

Bazinga was out in the living room today and got to eat supper with us. We had chicken, and I fought my fear and decided to hand feed him some small bits. He ate from my fingers very slowly and carefully. I feel silly being afraid, now, and I am glad to overcome that fear. He ate quite a bit of chicken and then I put him in his viv where he sat like a fat log under his basking light.

You can really see his lavendar eyelids in this picture. Like the beardies, he loves to rearrange my video games on my shelf and now they are all pushed around and all over the floor.

 

[TASTIGER]

hes really pretty!

 

[ShannyBeard]

Thank you! He is so strange and different. I am still trying to figure him out - what he likes and doesn't like. He definitely doesn't like his little armpits to be tickled. LOL

 

[Gail]

I just can't imagine giving them such big worms! Am I a bad beardie mommy? They are getting to the 15" size range by now. I'm just scared if they do have a problem or get impacted I don't want to deal with it. And I hate mealworms. I don't even feed them to my gecko. They sit in a fridge for weeks at a time in bran - how is that nutritious? I'm really on the fence about that.

And with babies and greens - yeah they are supposed to eat them from day one, true. But is it wrong that I don't want them to fill up on their greens? :| There was a store employee or owner who recently posted their feeding schedule here and 3 of the 7 days were greens/salad only, 2 of the days were feeders, and one of the days was no food at all. How is a baby dragon going to grow on that diet? And in thinking of what would make a baby grow, wouldn't that be a lot of feeders and protein? I don't want them filling up on salad, so I don't worry about them not eating their greens so much as babies. I feel like if they take a few bites, great. I would rather tell someone not to really worry about the babies not eating salad instead of some of the things I see people say, like withholding feeders. Not as babies - I don't think that's a good strategy.

No, that doesn't make you a bad mommy. If you decide to feed supers, start them when you are comfortable. I never keep my mealworms in the fridge. They are kept room temp just like the supers and fed veggies.

As far as the greens go, telling a newbie not to worry, they will eat their greens later isn't correct. If a dragon doesn't learn to eat them as a baby, it will be near impossible to get them eating greens as a adult.
Pig always got greens first thing in the morning then feeders in the afternoon and early evening.
Some days I would skip feeders completely, it won't hurt their development to eat just greens a couple days a week. Babies might need more protein then a adult but that doesn't mean they need only protein. Greens are really, really important for babies too.

This is where I have a different opinion on raising dragons. No other animal that I have learned about, is recommended to power-feed to adult size in a years time. Dog, cats, snakes, skinks, whatever. They are all recommended to grow at a slow, ever rate. Then you come to a dragon forum and read about how your dragon has to be this big huge fast growing monster or its unhealthy. Thinking like that killed my first dragon.

When I first come here, it was almost a competition to see who could grow their dragon the biggest the fastest. When torque was 6 months, he was 22 inches and still not the biggest dragon. He was eating 100 plus lobster roaches a day, very little greens (I was told not to worry) and every one was so impressed with my BIG healthy dragon. By the time he was a year old, he stopped eating, lost weight and promptly had liver failure. I found out later this was most likely caused by too much protein and growing too fast.
He wasn't even 2 when he had to be put to sleep. I HATE the member who was constantly encouraging me and other newbies to stuff our dragon, "feed them more so they will be big like my dragon" I'm glad she left, if she was still here I would never come back.
Its partly my fault for not doing research but I really feel I was mislead by well meaning, over dotting members who had no idea why they recommended the care they did.
Raising pig, I gave her a certain amount of feeders daily and she grew just fine. At 9 months she is around 16", its hard to tell exactly as she has a tail nip but she is healthy and not over weight. She will continue to grow at a healthy rate and reach her full adult size by 2 years. Contrary to popular belief, average dragon size isn't 20+ inches, it 16+ inches.

Bazinga looks really good, I love all the red he has. A lot of skinks don't like their tails or tops of their heads touched and for the most part, they aren't into daily cuddles like a dragon. Have you got to see his teeth yet? They are so weird after being used to a dragons shark like teeth.

Chicken is great for hand feeding but don't let him get addicted to it. Its great for variety but not as a staple meat source. Do you ever toss bugs in his cage and let him hunt? I'm going to make a hunting bin for mine. Basically you get a big plastic tub and put a inch or two of dried oak leaves or ever leaf sized pieced of brown paper in the tub then toss in a few mealworms or roaches and then the skink forages for them. I hear they really have fun with that.

 

[MissT]

Ahhhh, he is so cute! I cant believe I just found this (I am so slow lol!)

Now, to pick up on another point...

Otto and I were just talking about supers last night. He said he felt Ginger, Scarlet and Papa Smurf were fine and big enough by now or at least the girls were getting big enough, but I just can't imagine giving them such big worms! Am I a bad beardie mommy? They are getting to the 15" size range by now. I'm just scared if they do have a problem or get impacted I don't want to deal with it.

Like everyone has already said, unless you have a dragon that doesnt chew or bask, you shouldnt have a problem with supers. Travis didnt get any until he was 16inches but that was purely because they arent something that I am in the habit of having around LOL! And besides that - the 16 inch rule is rubbish - I could have a 16 inch dragon with a 6 inch body and one with an 8 inch body... that just makes the rule completely pointless.

The only thing I would say about supers is, be careful they dont start refusing every other feeder. Im sure you have already read about Travis' hunger strike, Shannon. I know he isnt quite 7 months old but im going with tough love. He is big enough to deal with it. He hasnt lost any weight and he still eats a full bowl of greens everyday so, Im happy enough with that. If he was hungry, he would eat one of the other 5 different types of bugs I have offered to him!

 

[ShannyBeard]

No, that doesn't make you a bad mommy. If you decide to feed supers, start them when you are comfortable. I never keep my mealworms in the fridge. They are kept room temp just like the supers and fed veggies.

Bazinga looks really good, I love all the red he has. A lot of skinks don't like their tails or tops of their heads touched and for the most part, they aren't into daily cuddles like a dragon. Have you got to see his teeth yet? They are so weird after being used to a dragons shark like teeth.

Chicken is great for hand feeding but don't let him get addicted to it. Its great for variety but not as a staple meat source. Do you ever toss bugs in his cage and let him hunt? I'm going to make a hunting bin for mine. Basically you get a big plastic tub and put a inch or two of dried oak leaves or ever leaf sized pieced of brown paper in the tub then toss in a few mealworms or roaches and then the skink forages for them. I hear they really have fun with that.

I only quoted a little bit of you because I have a few very specific questions and I don't want the point to get lost in the text! About the mealworms - if I leave them out of the fridge they pupate very fast. We live in Florida so it could maybe be the humidity OR the warmth, I just don't know, but we just have to keep them in the fridge. I keep them in the cups and bran that we bought them in. If I took them out of the bran and fed them greens, does that keep them from pupating? :?: :?:

No, I haven't seen Buzzy's teeth yet! I thought I would see then when I was feeding him last night, but I didn't see any at all! I need to take a look at them, now - you have me so curious. We got superworms and I was going to feed him some last night, but the chicken went over so well. I should have fed him just a little chicken and tried the supers, but when I put the supers in front of him he acted like he didn't see them. The mealies I have are only 1/2" long. They are for my anoles. I would love to feed him roaches. The reptile store said he won't eat live feeders at all, they tried and tried. He said the guy that traded him is a regular customer, and he knows he only fed him people food. Great, huh...?

And about overloading protein: I know in horses that is a deadly thing. Too much protein can cause them to founder and cripple overnight. We were very careful about that when we had horses. I know I am feeding Papa Smurf too many silkworms. They are over 60% protein! I try to be so careful with them but I know I am overdoing it. :|

Buzzy is great about having his head touched, but yes his tail is something he will tolerate me touching, but I can tell he is not a fan. His armpits are funny to touch. He will squirm and wriggle. LOL.