Basking surface temperature? Rock or branch?

[Axeloukos]

Hello.

Been lurking on this forum for 2 months now since got my first Beardie and helped a lot so thank you all.

I have few questions tho that I haven't found proper answer to. My guy is 5 months old so I know his basking area must be at around 110f. But what should be 110f? Basking air or rock basking surface? Because if the air is 110f then the rock temp goes up to 125f which I don't think is right. But if I lower my heat bulb and make rock surface at 110f then the air temp in basking area goes to 90f.

I know rocks consume heat a lot maybe I should just use branches for basking area?

Before: https://imgur.com/a/OkIyORU
After I moved some stuff: https://imgur.com/a/KQvkT0B

Thank you!

 

[MrSpectrum]

My guy is 5 months old so I know his basking area must be at around 110f. But what should be 110f? Basking air or rock basking surface?

Rock basking surface. Air temps should range from ~80° (cool side) to ~90°F (warm side)

Because if the air is 110f then the rock temp goes up to 125f which I don't think is right. But if I lower my heat bulb and make rock surface at 110f then the air temp in basking area goes to 90f.

That is correct.

I know rocks consume heat a lot maybe I should just use branches for basking area?

Folks use either or both.
You can lose the dial gauges; the digitals are more accurate. The UVB might be better placed down the center of the tank rather than along the front/back, and as close to one end as possible. I think I see a hide, but not sure; he needs someplace to get away from the UV if he wants to.

They're all different, but FWIW, mine is 5 months as well, and at this age, generally prefers lower basking temps (mid-90s); he only seeks over 100 right after he's eaten. I've put my basking lamp at an angle, which stretches out his basking area and provides him a choice of temps. :wink:

 

[kingofnobbys]

BE VERY CAREFUl about non-contact basking surface temperature measurements using cheap consumer thermometers with preset internal emissivity calibrations and large spot sizes . Very easy to get very misleading temperature readings of a surface that might be as much as 30% out.

Is worth knowing the emissivity of the basking surface and reviewing the following.

viewtopic.php?f=34&t=239064&p=1833542#p1833542
Getting it right
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=241233
you've mucked up, now how do you calculate the correct temperature reading for my surface
viewtopic.php?f=34&t=249355&p=1890490#p1890490

 

[Axeloukos]

So aim for 100f basking rock surface and 80f to 90f from cool to warm side and then see what he prefers. Got it! Thanks.

Yhe the dial gauges are all over the place, the digital ones I placed in are more accurate but the difference between dial and digital is massive lol.

He does has a hide a small cave and the UVB is as close as it can be to the right side. I'll be getting new enclosure in 1 month max and it'll be from wood so I can make more airflow for humidity to stay low at night.

I heard that small enclosure can produce spine issues. Is that correct?

 

[Axeloukos]

BE VERY CAREFUl about non-contact basking surface temperature measurements using cheap consumer thermometers with preset internal emissivity calibrations and large spot sizes . Very easy to get very misleading temperature readings of a surface that might be as much as 30% out.

WOAH! More things to panic about ahahah..
Gonna read into the links u've posted and try to understand it. Thank you.

 

[MrSpectrum]

So aim for 100f basking rock surface and 80f to 90f from cool to warm side and then see what he prefers. Got it!

Mmmm... Maybe a little hotter (I think mine maxes out between 105 & 107), but yeah--if you can give him a choice/variety, that would be best.

I heard that small enclosure can produce spine issues. Is that correct?

Can't confirm or deny--but I'm an advocate of the largest enclosure one can afford.
Most internet sources say 40gal breeder minimum; 120 gal (4'x2'x2') ideal.
I went a little larger (5'x2'x2') and one woman's Masters thesis advocates a different standard:
Reptile Housing: Size, Dimension and Lifestyle

IMO, the best way to measure surface temps is with a temp gun. They're inexpensive, extremely accurate, easy to use (point & shoot) and are very handy when heating up bath water (90-95°F)

 

[Axeloukos]

IMO, the best way to measure surface temps is with a temp gun. They're inexpensive, extremely accurate, easy to use (point & shoot) and are very handy when heating up bath water (90-95°F)

I bought one https://imgur.com/a/dfmFTn5 which is exactly what you described. Unfortunately mine came with laser broken so it don't show where I aim but its not exactly rocket since to know where you aim. :wink:

 

[Claudiusx]

Personally I like digital thermometers with probe ends over IR thermometers for the exact reason KON brought up.. Emissivity. You need to know the emissivity of the surface you are reading (doable with charts and literature if you KNOW your surface material) and have a IR gun that will allow you to adjust.

No issues like that with probe end thermometers. Set em' and forget em'

Like anything, the tool is only as good as the person using it.

-Brandon

 

[Axeloukos]

No issues like that with probe end thermometers. Set em' and forget em'

Are we talking about this? https://imgur.com/a/Ib0KwJd
Its from my thermostat. If so should I just put it on basking surface then?

 

[Claudiusx]

Yeah that would be the style. You need to place it directly on the area you are wanting to measure if you want to get a surface temp.

You can pick up digital with probe ends really cheap online and it most petstores. Now a days even the cheap ones will be very decently accurate at the temperatures we are measuring.

-Brandon

 

[MrSpectrum]

Personally I like digital thermometers with probe ends over IR thermometers for the exact reason KON brought up.. Emissivity. You need to know the emissivity of the surface you are reading (doable with charts and literature if you KNOW your surface material) and have a IR gun that will allow you to adjust.

That's why I offer Z a gradient/range of basking temps, and trust him to bask where he wants.
Sometimes he sits & thinks, and sometimes he just sits. (Although sometimes he sits with his butt hanging over the edge... :dontknow: )

 

[Axeloukos]

Yeah that would be the style. You need to place it directly on the area you are wanting to measure if you want to get a surface temp.

Update! So I did this https://imgur.com/a/QtImu46 and set thermostat to max 40c and it chills around 38c https://imgur.com/a/LHHx3ma.

The themp gun on the other side shows this https://imgur.com/a/5AlZl1G.

So I guess thermostats probe does better job regulating temps then temp gun?

 

[Claudiusx]

That is quite a discrepancy between the two. That's why I tend to like probes best. Your gun might not be set to read that rocks emissivity correctly.

That being said, your probe could also be inaccurate. Thats why I always like to have 2 separate probes on hand, that way I can verify a temperature against another one. If you're out and about today, pick on up from your local pet store. Should be less than 10 bucks for one like this:

These types are only about 5 bucks online too.

Then if both of your probes read near the same, you know your gun isn't measuring that rock accurately due to its composition.

-Brandon

 

[MrSpectrum]

With a broken laser, it's also difficult to tell if the temp gun is reading the rock or the log.
While not as critcal as it used to be, distance from target can also have some effect on temp gun readings. RTFM.

It's up to you, but I'd return/exchange that gun. If the laser arrived broken, no telling what else may/may not be broken or not working properly. You might try testing it for accuracy.
how to test a temp gun

 

[kingofnobbys]

With a broken laser, it's also difficult to tell if the temp gun is reading the rock or the log.
While not as critcal as it used to be, distance from target can also have some effect on temp gun readings. RTFM.

It's up to you, but I'd return/exchange that gun. If the laser arrived broken, no telling what else may/may not be broken or not working properly. You might try testing it for accuracy.
how to test a temp gun

The laser functioning is neither here nor there wrt to accuracy, unless the laser is aligned to read dead centre of spot/area being measured ( most are not , though there are some better noncontact thermometers that have a ring of laserlight projected to the target surface that show the edge of measurement area,or at least 2 spots projected to bracket the measurement spot, and others have a sight glass (like point and shoot cameras used to have)).

It's more important to know the spot to distance ratio , ie 12:1 means a 1" diameter spot if the gun is 12" from the surface. So a larger number ( 18:1 , 30:1 , 40:1 , 100:1 ) is better.
Very easy if you are not keeping this in mind to end up getting a false temperature reading for the surface that includes an averaged temperature that includes the cooler background behind the surface.
MAKE SURE THE SPOT is ONLY covering the surface you want to measure .
So make sure you know where the laser dot is projected wrt the measurement area of your "gun".