Bad Reaction to Enema---Long term poop problems--advice

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discojan

Juvie Member
Hi all,

It's been a crazy weekend in our lizard-loving house.... I'm writing to seek your advice about our younger beardie, Salsa, who has had a rough go of things in terms of pooping and her GI tract. When we adopted her a year ago she had a host of problems with parasites, which were very persistent, and it took us more than 6 months to get her in the clear. During that time she was on a combination of meds, panacur/SMZ/metronodizal and finally ponzaril which ended up clearing the coccidia.

Ever since then, she has never really been on a very good pooping schedule. At best it was once every 3-4 days (when she was on a kind of calcionate syrup .01ml twice a day) the longest go was nearly 3 weeks, and then only induced by enema.

This Sat. we took her to the vet because she hadn't pooped in nearly 2.5 weeks. Aside from the not pooping, she was seeming happy, basking, she had eaten 3 large hornworms the night before. The vet gave her an enema (which she had had in the past and pooped no problem and then felt much better). The problem was this time she didn't poop within 2 hours, then they tried to give her another enema, but it wouldn't take. Meanwhile, they brought her back to me pale as can be with jet black beard and tale, limp and lethargic. I was terrified. When the black beard didn't go away, they gave her a small injection to help relieve her pain it was metacam. We went went home and 3 hours later she was still jet black, they called us to check and told us to bring her back so they could give her a shot to stimulate her GI tract--it was something called reglan (metoclopramide). She perked up a little after that shot--enough to run from the sun to the shade when we brought her outside, but still no poop, and by the time we brought her home she was limp again. Her black beard went away in her sleep and her color improved by the morning

We gave her 2 more doses of the reglan orally, and she finally pooped in her bath on Sun. morning. It's now Tues. and she still isn't her regular self. We brought her back to the vet to have an ultrasound, and the vet said the results were inconclusive, and is waiting to hear more opinions from other vets with more expertise in reptiles. The ultrasound person thought the spleen might be enlarged but wasn't sure, and also thought the wall of the colon was thick/full of fluid.

We're waiting for more information. In the meanwhile, I'm curious if anyone else has had similar experiences--have your beardies' GI tracts never been the same after long boughts/fights with parasites? Has anyone's lizard reacted so badly to an enema?

We're feeding her critical/carnivore care by oral syringe, since she's not much interested in greens or worms, and waiting for next steps from the vet. They also gave us more calcionate syrup, and upped the dosage to.4ml (Salsa weighs about 440 now).

It would be great to hear from other people who have some experience in these things.

Best wishes,
Jan
 

Mach10X

Hatchling Member
I'm not the best to answer this question as I have no vet experience. But to get the discussion started I'll post my thoughts. Severe parasites, I've heard, can cause permanent damage to the digestive tract. I've heard that a barium contrast can be given to your dragon to map out the digestive tract and look for any issues such as a twisted intestine or other damage/impactions.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Jan,

I am waiting for the results on the ultrasound. Could the thick liquid be some of the enema?
I don't think that two enemas should have been used, personally. They should have given more time in between giving them, it is too much on the system. Reptiles respond slowly to treatment most of the time, so you have to wait sometimes, to see what something is going to do to their system.
As I have suggested, possible peritonitis is a possibility from the damage from repeated bouts of coccidia, etc on her system.
I am not sure how many people on the forum have had this much trouble, but maybe there may be a few on here that might have some personal experience with it.
When are you supposed to hear back from the vets?

Tracie
 

discojan

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Thanks Tracie,

I agree that two enemas should not have been used, but they didn't ask me before they did the second one ! I posted here rather than emailing you personally because I was curious to hear if anyone else had any kind of similar experience. We are supposed to hear from the vet sometime today. Salsa is awake, but sulking in the corner of the warm side of her cage.

Many thanks for all your insight. I hope that the vet gets back to us sooner rather than later.

Best wishes,Jan
 

discojan

Juvie Member
Original Poster
THanks Mach 10X,
Just saw your post now. We spoke to the vet tonight, who is consulting with folks at the vet school at UT Knoxville, which is about 3 or so hours away. She suggested that our next step would be a series of blood work and a barium contrast with multiple x-rays. I'm a little concerned about how much all this is going to cost! So far, the person who did the ultrasound determined that the intestines are moving well and seem to have normal motility, but she didn't think the stomach had normal motility. So, it's wait and see.

The goood news is that Salsa was basking like a normal, happy beardie today. She seems to be back to her old (non-pooping self). I think she ate two hornworms . I didn't see her, but they weren't in her bowl when I came back from work.

The semester starts tomorrow at UK, so here we go. Let's hope Salsa continues on the mend.

Best wishes,
Jan
 

Mach10X

Hatchling Member
Never heard of a dragon with gastrophyresis, but it is possible. Best of luck to you. I hope it doesn't run you too much.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Jan,

Let me know what the results are & what they decide. I hope she is feeling better & not sulking.
They don't think her stomach is running quite normal then? There may be some damage there, I suppose. Poor girl, she has been through it!

Keep us posted.

Tracie
 

discojan

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Hi Tracie,

Thank you so much for your kind words. When we last talked to the vet, she suggested we might drive Salsa to UT Knoxville (which is several hours a way, so that she could get the best treatment from the vet school which specializes in exotics. Salsa's got her head up and she's alert, so that's good. I'll be on campus all day with the start of the semester and my weird teaching schedule, but hopefully my partner can keep an eye on her. Poor girl, she has had a rough go of it,for sure. Maybe all that fancy breeding (she's some kind of Italian red leatherback) weakened her genetic constitution from the getgo? Or maybe it's just been not such great luck. I'm just glad she seems to be acting more like herself.

Fingers crossed,
Jan
 

discojan

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Hooray!!! Salsa made a big huge poo today while I was at work. My partner brought it to the vet and it was totally clear...She seems to be more like herself. What is the dosage for calcionate syrup ? There was some confusion about it at the vet's because it was labeled two different ways. Tracie, do you know?

Best wishes, Jan
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Jan,

GREAT to hear that Salsa went potty finally! :D How is she doing today?
Let me double check my sources on the calcionate syrup. Is it glubionate or just straight calcionate? Will she be treated for normal levels or is she hypocalcemic?
I do have to say that the fancier morphs do have the inbreeding in the background so it can affect their health & genetics, absolutely. A lot of the issues are calcium related, as well.

Tracie
 

discojan

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Hello all,

Salsa seems to have returned to her normal, non pooping self. She is happily basking, though she hasn't eaten much in about a week (aside from the critical care/carnivore slurry we've been giving her). She even bobbed at Electra today, so we know she must be feeling better.

The vet put her back on calcium syrup, because the only time she pooped semi-regularly post-parasites was while she was on the syrup. When she was first on it, it was some time in spring, and she got .01 ml 2x a day. Now the vet said that dose wasn't strong enough, so she wants us to give Salsa .4 ml a day (that seemed like a lot), but she wasn't sure of the dosage, because of the double labeling of the bottle. I've given her .2 the few days (she seems to like the way it tastes), and I wonder if it helped her with the big poop on Thurs. As far as I can tell it is straight calcionate syrup, but it's not really well labeled.


Still no word on the expert opinion of ultrasound. I'm just really, really glad she seems to have good color, head up, basking, bobbing. All signs of the lizard we know and love.

We'll keep you posted.

Warmly, Jan
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Jan,

Do you happen to know the dose of the calcionate? It should be straight glubionate then.
Did they do another blood test on her?
The recommended dose for hypocalemic dragons for the first 12-24 hours is 10mg/kg. It should be decreased after that to a 1-5mg/kg dose, maybe go with 1-3mg/kg on the lower end if she is not showing any signs of hypocalcemia.
Yes, if she was low in calcium then that could have been one reason she was having trouble going to the bathroom though.
She weighs 650 grams? I can double check the dose if you can find out what the concentration is? Maybe 10%?

It sounds like she is feeling better then if she is head bobbing & basking today! Did she eat anything on her own?
I hope she is feeling better.

Tracie
 

discojan

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Hi Tracie,

They have not yet done a bloodtest on her. She is only about 430 grams (much smaller than Electra!) I will check on the make-up of the syrup when we talk to the vet tomorrow. I still don't think she is eating on her own, though she will like the critical/carnivore care instead of me having to shove it down. She is basking and bobbing, which is very, very good ;) Thanks for getting back to me Tracie. Best wishes, J
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Jan,

Oh yes, I forgot she was smaller than Electra!
So Salsa is doing much better today then basking & bobbing? LOL That is great to hear then!
Does she eat the critical care pretty well then through a syringe or dropper?
Definitely let me know the strength of the calcionate syrup.

Thanks.
Tracie
 

discojan

Juvie Member
Original Poster
Hi Tracie,
Still waiting to hear from the vet, but it looks like it is straight up syrup. The good news is she made a nice poop all on her own today, after sunning herself outside and then hanging out in a nice, warm bath. It was very normal looking, well formed, urates were firm, but not chalky. We hope to hear more from the vet tomorrow. She ate 1 yummy hornworm today, so that's a start. I hope she sneaks some greens when I'm not looking. Electra is blackbearding a bit, jealous of the attention Salsa is getting for sure, and also probably making eggies ;)

They keep us busy for sure. Let's hope the vet calls later today or tomorrow. Best wishes, J
 
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