Baby beardie walking funny?

[Luthien]

Cleaning would be a good idea but like you said we don't want to stress poor Tashi while doing it so here's what I suggest and what I did when I had a sick beardie

Take out the wood and soak it in either bleach or vinegar for about 10 minutes, after that remove it from the cleaner and soak it in warm water for about 15-20 then dry it off. Put it back in the tank after that as it's clean!

For the reptile carpet wait till the next day after cleaning the wood so everything doesn't happen at once for Tashi then yes I would replace it with clean stuff. You might even want to consider throwing away the carpet he/she has now and get new stuff.

During any cleaning or upsetting of the tank make sure the room is normal. If Tashi is used to music, tv, talking or anything like that then have it on. Just don't have a lot of energy like kids jumping around.

 

[Mustashio]

Just thought I'd update...

Tashi has been doing GREAT! He is so comfortable being held, and bathing and eating like a champ! Even caught him eating his vegi's and greens which he only seems to do when no one is looking! LOL! He bolts around his viv and glass dances a lot...especially when the cricket cage is within eyeshot! My hubby was playing with him the other day and he was chasing the laser light thermometer around like a cat chasing catnip! Hilarious! I have not seen any further evidence of wobble walking or dizziness! We got our scaley baby back! It was touch and go there for awhile, but now we are just enjoying him so much! (And by the way, the pet store reimbursed me for the full $150 vet bill!)

Thank you to everyone who responded with such great advice! You guys were life savers...er, uh DRAGON SAVERS!

Here is our Mustashio with my 10yo son!

~Jill

 

[diamc]

Hi, I was just reading about what went on with Mustashio. Poor little thing, so happy to hear that he has improved and there is no more dizziness, etc.

Just curious, did the vet recommend putting him on probiotics while he was on the antibiotic and for about 2 to 3 wks after? If not, that is always a good idea to help restore the good gut flora that the antibiotics destroy. That way, there appetite won't be affected. Antibiotics are also very dehydrating so always a good idea to give oral fluids and frequent baths.

I really wouldn't recommend using a MVB and a Repti-Sun at the same time because too much UVB isn't good and can have adverse affects. What size tank is he in? Make sure you are using either an infrared temp gun or a digital thermometer with a probe in order to get accurate readings as babies need to have just the right temps. What is the distance of the MVB to him while he's on his basking log? If you decide to just use the Repti-Sun tube, make sure you use a bright white basking bulb rather than a CHE because they do much better with a bright white bulb.

So happy to hear that he is doing so much better. Your whole family must be relieved! Great that you got reimbursed from the pet store too!

 

[Luthien]

This is great news!! Congrats on getting your scaly baby back!

That was actually pretty kind of the pet store to pay back the vet bill, not many will do that.

 

[Mustashio]

Hi, I was just reading about what went on with Mustashio. Poor little thing, so happy to hear that he has improved and there is no more dizziness, etc.

Just curious, did the vet recommend putting him on probiotics while he was on the antibiotic and for about 2 to 3 wks after? If not, that is always a good idea to help restore the good gut flora that the antibiotics destroy. That way, there appetite won't be affected. Antibiotics are also very dehydrating so always a good idea to give oral fluids and frequent baths.

I really wouldn't recommend using a MVB and a Repti-Sun at the same time because too much UVB isn't good and can have adverse affects. What size tank is he in? Make sure you are using either an infrared temp gun or a digital thermometer with a probe in order to get accurate readings as babies need to have just the right temps. What is the distance of the MVB to him while he's on his basking log? If you decide to just use the Repti-Sun tube, make sure you use a bright white basking bulb rather than a CHE because they do much better with a bright white bulb.

So happy to hear that he is doing so much better. Your whole family must be relieved! Great that you got reimbursed from the pet store too!

Going to try and answer your questions in order!

The vet did not recommend the probiotics while on the de-worming meds, but it was only about 3 days into the antibiotics that he stopped eating and I brought him in right away at the vets recommendation. They didn't want to wait too long if he wasn't eating. At that time, she did say that the meds will sometimes wreak havoc on their little GI systems, and that is why she started the syringe feeding with Critical Care. We didn't have to do that for too long though, because his appetite returned within a few days.

I'm so glad you commented about the MVB and the ReptiSun. I had wondered if there was possibility of too much UVB and what symptoms that can produce. What are the symptoms for too much UVB? It was just so odd that as soon as the additional UVB bulb was put in, that seemed to be the turn around for him. He doesn't seem to have any weird behaviors or anything right now. I'm attaching a picture of his enclosure for reference, however, in the picture there is only the MVB lamp in the dome. Currently, we have both the MVB in the dome and then the ReptiSun 10.0 UVB bulb, (also in a dome) sitting on top of the screen, just to the left of the other dome. So the UVB illuminates most of the tank but sits mostly over the cool side of the tank where his hide/castle is. The wood climb he has is multi-tiered, and although he does use it as a basking spot, he almost never basks on the high point right under the light. Usually he will bask on the lower log right underneath that spot (which you can see better in the second picture). We have been using a commercial grade $300 laser thermometer that my husband uses for his business to spot check temperatures in the tank, on the basking spot, the hide etc. The thermometers we have in the tank itself are ones that adhere to the back of the tank, but are not the adhesive strip kind. (The adhesive strip you see in the picture is right above the humidity gauge and it is an old one my sister had on the tank when she gave it to us. We don't use it.) We have 2 thermometers in the tank, one on the cool side which reads a steady 80-85 degrees during the day, and only drops to about 80 degrees at night. This is also the side with the under tank heater. My guess is when summer fully arrives, we will turn the under tank heater off. On the hot side of his tank the thermometer reads 100-105, but when we use the laser thermometer, the basking spot on his wood which is directly under the MVB is about 110-118 degrees. I think there is about 5-6 inches between the bulb and the basking spot. Again, he usually doesn't bask there though. And when he sleeps, (when all lights are off) he will sometimes sleep on the 2 higher little perches to the far right of the basking spot. Barely enough room for him to hang on, but he does it! LOL! Night time thermometer readings are 80 degrees on the cool side, and 80-85 degrees on the warm side after lights have been off for an hour or so.

Does that help? Thank you so much for helping with the husbandry and set up and lighting questions. All feedback is welcome and appreciated. If you could let me know what the signs of too much UVB are? At least then I can be on the lookout for suspicious symptoms! Otherwise, right now I think he is doing okay.

~Jill

 

[Gymgirlx]

You need to get the Repti-sun tube ( not bulb). Also a lot of the uvb is blocked out by the screen.

 

[Mustashio]

You need to get the Repti-sun tube ( not bulb). Also a lot of the uvb is blocked out by the screen.

Isn't that what we have? There were only 2 different ReptiSun bulbs at the store. The one we have, and then the coil one which I know is a bad thing.

If there is one that is like a fish tank bulb that runs the length of the cage, I haven't seen it. The screen is what we have so I have to go with what we've got to work with. The holes are very small in the screen and aren't thickly coated like others I have seen. My sister used this viv for a leopard gecko she had before, which I know is different from the BD needs, but she didn't have any issues. And Tashi is doing much better now with the addition of the extra UVB. I'm not really worried about him not getting enough UVB, but more with the possibility of him getting too much like one of the Moderators suggested since I am using the MVB and an additional UVB light sorce.

I will keep the things you suggested in mind though, thank you!
~Jill

 

[Gymgirlx]

The tube one is a long a repti-sun 10.0 Usually you can't find them in pet stores, they are truly the best though for UVB and the only ones ( or arcadia 12%) recommended by people on here. Glad he's doing better though! Pretty coloring!

 

[diamc]

In case you have to put him on antibiotics again anytime, I wanted to mention that if you had started him on probiotics when he was started on the antibiotics, he probably wouldn't have lost his appetite 3 days later as it's very typical for that to happen when not getting the probiotics. When on meds, a lot of us use the probiotics as well as chicken & squash baby food or critical care so that they can get a boost and it really does work, just something to keep in mind. :wink:

You're right, the coil UVB's are bad but sorry to have to tell you that the Repti-Sun compact is bad too. Gymgirlx is right, it is the Repti-Sun tube (strip fluorescent) or the Arcadia bulb that you would want to get, those are the best of the best. There are all sorts of health problems associated with the coil and compact UVB's. The bulb you have now looks like this, right?

This is the one you should have.

A mercury vapor bulb like the Solar Glo you're using now is very strong. We don't recommend using a MVB in a tank any smaller than a 40 gallon breeder which has the dimensions of 36 x 18 x 19. A 125 watt MVB should be at a minimum distance of 12" to your beardie while in the basking spot. So, I suspect that the basking reading of 118 from the laser gun is indeed the right reading and that is very dangerous. The round gauge (dial) thermometers you have in the tank on the back wall are very inaccurate and only measuring the temp of the glass. That does make sense that he will not bask from the actual basking spot because it is too hot and that he finds it more comfortable on the lower log that is further away from the high temperatures but wasn't getting enough of the UVB output from the MVB so he started showing the walking difficulties, etc. Now that you have the compact UVB, he is getting a large amount of rays from that but those particular bulbs put out too strong of a UV index in the beginning and then decline very rapidly. You actually have a couple of choices though, using a standard household light bulb, probably a 60 or 75 watt would give you good temps at the 5 to 6" distance to the basking log that you have now and using a Repti-Sun tube for the UVB. Another choice would be to continue to use the Solar Glo but raising it up to a 12" minimum to the basking log with a lamp stand to try to get a basking temp of 108 to 110 but no higher but you may need a lower wattage household bulb to get a cool side temp of about 80 degrees. I would highly recommend that when you check the temps from now on that you only use the infrared gun that is held 2" from the area you're checking OR pick up a digital thermometer with a long wire & probe end to use. All 3 of the thermometers on the back of the tank can be off as much as 20 to 40 degrees so you can't really go by the readings from them at all. You need to know the BASKING temp right on the log and the bottom of the cool side temp. If you have a Walmart near you, they have the AcuRite brand digital with probe for about $12.00 that will give you both of those readings at the same time as well as a humidity reading. Or, if you preferred, you could get one here: http://www.amazon.com/Chaney-Instruments-Acu-Rite-Thermometer-Humidity/dp/B001BO8CUE/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1333414622&sr=8-6 It measures in farenheit as well as celcius.

He is just so adorable. How is he doing with his appetite? Oh, I don't remember if we discussed this but what brand calcium & vitamins are you using and how often are you dusting with both of them?

 

[Claudiusx]

I am going to have to second Dianes post about the importance of getting a new thermometer.

-Brandon

 

[Mustashio]

Oh you guys I just want to SCREAM! I'm not upset by you all or by your wonderful advice, but I researched this pet basically to death before getting him, and read all the books and made sure all the things I needed were purchased and did everything I thought I was supposed to do....

Then I bring him home, and the original climb was too slippery so I exchanged that, then the dragon was sick so I "thought" I fixed that, then went to buy yet another different light, and that's bad for him too! Now the thermometers need to be changed and the whole set up needs rearranging! Aaaargh!

I looked today and the pet store does have the tube bulb. I just don't know how (or if) to rearrange everything. With a screen top, how the heck do you suspend this tube bulb over the viv? I open his cage at least 3 times a day, and as it is, I have little hooks screwed into my wall to set the lights on when the cage is open. Will a regular household light bulb really give enough heat? And like I said, I've got all this money into lighting and they are all wrong, and the screen top is wrong, and thermometers are wrong....Sigh.

And to answer your questions, Diane, about the appetite and dusting...His appetite is crazy! Tonight he ate 20 crickets! I usually don't give him that much, usually 10 in the morning and 10 at night, along with salads daily and the occasional mealworms. But he has been eating more crickets at each feeding lately, and is going through a shed currently, so I know he is growing. I dust with Flukers Calcium +D3 for morning feedings 5x a week and then I use the Herptivite Vitamin dust 2x a week for the morning feeding as well. I also sprinkle his salad with calcium dust a few times a week, and all the crickets are gut loaded with Flukers food and cricket "water" gel. I even drip a drop of Reptisafe water conditioner into his water dish which supposedly has electrolytes and calcium in it--at least it says so on the bottle. But I'm probably wrong about that too, the rate I'm going!

~Jill

 

[Esther19]

Hang in there! We have all had the same experience. Incredibly frustrating. (And expensive)
I use zip ties to mount the UVB inside the tank, but my screen top folds in half. You can also cut a hole in the screen to allow the UVB to get in with nothing blocking it. if your fixture has a plastic cover, that should be removed.

 

[Esther19]

Is any of the "wrong" stuff able to be returned? Just a thought.

 

[diamc]

So sorry if we overwhelmed you with information and suggestions, that was certainly not our intention at all. We want Tashi to be nice & healthy and for everything to be perfect for him so that you have him a very long time. We also know that you and your family are very attached to him already, so we are trying to not leave anything out to prevent him from having any problems.

We all know that it is discouraging at first when you find out that you didn't get all the correct info and that it is a big expense getting everything perfect but once you have it all, then you just need to do very slight changes as the years go on. We have all been through this. The main thing is that you've made some minor changes and he is already doing better.

To give you an example of bulb wattages, one of my tanks is a 40 gallon breeder and I only need a 60 watt household bulb on the basking side and a 40 watt bulb on the cool side to get temps of 103 and 80. The reptile basking bulbs are more expensive and are really nothing special, you're just paying extra for the brand. All white bulbs that produce heat, give off UVA. So, if you decide to go with a standard white household bulb, there are no worries there. For the holder for the Repti-Sun tube, you can go to Lowe's, Home Depot or Walmart and get a standard fluorescent light like you would use over a kitchen sink, remove the plastic covering and bulb that comes with it and pop in the UVB. If you get the Repti-Sun 10.0 tube at a pet store, you're gonna pay at least twice as much as you would online. Here's a few links where you can get this bulb at a reasonable price, this 1st one includes shipping and they ship very quickly: http://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-ReptiSun%C2%AE-Fluorescent-18-Inch/dp/B0009YJ3BE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333465158&sr=8-1 or you can use metal shelf brackets, another choice is the 3M hooks. So, there are a lot of choices.

That is awesome that his appetite has increased and 20 crickets at a time is a real good start. You can increase the amount since he sounds ready and give him all the crickets he wants to eat in a 10 to 15 minute time frame each time. Great that he is shedding, certainly shows that he is growing. The way you're dusting with his supplements if fine, no worries there.

We are here to help you every step of the way, just think how much better he is doing since you 1st posted here. That makes us all feel very good! Keep up the great work!

 

[Mustashio]

Okay...new day, fresh perspective! I really do appreciate all your guys help! While Tashi IS doing much much better, I want to make sure I do everything to keep it that way! I apologize if my frustration yesterday offended anyone as that was NOT my intention! I really do value your guys' advice and expertise!

I looked at the websites Diane suggested for the bulb and the brackets and the thermometer and came up with these solutions and a few more questions.

1. The pet store has a 60 day return policy, so I can definitely return the ReptiSun compact bulb ($35) and also the deep dome fixture ($27). I would then probably buy the ReptiSun tube (the right one this time!) I have an old fish tank fixture, that the tube bulb would likely fit into, however, it is bigger than the viv, so I wouldn't be able to mount it on the inside of the viv unless I bought a whole new flourescent fixture (which is probably the only solution and not that expensive of a fix). Someone mentioned that they used zip ties...how did you get that to work?

2. I would likely use those metal mounting brackets to mount to the inside of the viv, but QUESTION #1: Do those metal brackets get hot? Do I have to worry about them getting too close to Tashi? Right now his cage is 30x12x12 and I feel like it is already getting crowded in there even without the light mounted on the inside. His wood climb/jungle gym is kinda high right now in the 12 inch high viv. (See previous picture)

3. QUESTION #2: As Tashi gets older and we need to move to a bigger enclosure, will these lights and fixtures become obsolete? Or will I have to replace them again for bigger ones? Or should the hubby and I move Tashi to the bigger tank right now. We have a large curved glass fish tank that is 36x12x21. We would likely not use a cover on the tank at all and leave it open since we do not have any other pets and Tashi wouldn't be able to jump out of it even with the height of his climb. If I bought the ReptiSun bulb and the proper fixture and brackets and mounted it in this cage, would that be sufficient? I would then end up using a mounting bracket for the heat light source.

4. How much do I really need to worry about the MVB bulb right now. Even though that one area of his basking area is 120 degrees, the other areas are not that hot and he chooses to go there to bask. He seems to find an area he likes for basking no matter which side of the tank it is on. And he almost always sleeps on the "hot side" of the tank after lights are off. If I move the MVB bulb (which is a few days past the 60 day return period of course!) further away from the top of the screen, would that help? Or would it be better fit for the larger cage since it is much taller and wouldn't be as close to the basking spot? (Would be more at the 12 inches away mark). Or should I just scrap the MVB all together right now and buy a normal wattage household bright white bulb?

5. I do have a Walmart nearby and will go in search of the $15 thermometer that you all have suggested. I think the $300 commercial thermometer is accurate, but of course I can't have it at home in or near the tank all the time since the hubby uses it for work. This is a cheap enough fix anyway and since Tashi is eating me out of house and home in the cricket department, I'm at the store or pet store at least 2x a week anyway! (I wish my human children would eat that well! Wouldn't mind going to the grocery store every day if that was the case! LOL!)

Thanks again for your devotion to reading my extremely long posts and answering all my innumerable questions!

~Jill