baby beardie sick, with pics

[faelexia]

Our littlest dragon, cosmos, is sick.. He doesnt eat much but his belly is huge. I am very worried. We do not have money for a vet, but i may ask my mom for help, she is really broke though, so it is an absolute last resort. it will be a week or so before we might have enough money to take him. maybe. and then i dont even know what the vet would do, or what the fees would be after the initial visit so i want to know what you guys think a vet visit would do, as well as if i have reason to be worried...

anyway, here is what i have been doing with him.

his tank set up:
1 zoomed 25 watt basking bulb about 4 inches from basking spot, this keeps the general tank temp at about 85 F, and the basking spot around 105-110 F.
1 exo terra 10.0 26 watt uvb bulb, bought less than 3 months ago, also about 4-5 inches away. We have a 13 watt 10.0 i can switch him to if you think it is better.

he is very small so we keep him in a small tank so he doesnt get tired when hunting prey. it is a snake tank measuring 24"long, 12"wide, and 9" tall.

i just cleaned everything on tuesday with 10% ammonia 90% water, and then rinsed it all very well in water then dried it all very well and let it dry for like 24 hours before i put the stuff back in there. The tank i only dried for like 45 minutes but i am sure there was no ammonia left in there.

supplements i use are zoo med's reptivite, and repashy calcium plus for bearded dragons.

in general, we offer baby dubia roaches, he wont touch crickets. greens offered have been dandelion greens predominantly, and now collards (our other dragons eat the collards fine, but the littlest (cosmos) doesnt like them. mix ins are cactus, carrots, bell peppers, etc. i mix it up depending on what we have. i only feed greens from the organic foods store.

around thursday we bought nature zone appetite plus (B12 supplement in liquid form) and it seemed to help his activity levels, and eating initially but not so much anymore. ( http://lllreptile.com/store/catalog/reptile-supplies/vitamins-medicines-and-cage-cleaners/reptile-medications-mite-sprays-and-cleaners/-/appetite-plus/ )
we bought reptaid and began his first round on monday, aug 29. just a few drops mixed with water and the appetite plus.

he is making urates, as of wednesday. on thursday his **** was mostly liquid, with some kind of worm (a parasite? it did not look like a mealworm or anything we have fed him!!!) it was about 1/2 an inch long. or maybe 1/3 of an inch.

today i noticed his head was twitching. why is his head twitching? he has always had a 10.0 UVB bulb on him, and a basking spot that gets to be between 100-115, and a tank with a temp gradient.

he is on paper towel and has been so for a few weeks. we used to keep him on reptisand, or calcisand.

he is on day 5 of reptaid.. we are planning to do a full course of 10 days on, 2 days off, then 10 days on again.

Today i started feeding him organic winter squash baby food by needleless syringe. he ate about 60 cc's. i mixed in the reptaid with the baby food today instead of the water/b12 supplement. he drinks plenty of water from his bowl and i change it almost daily.

the bones at the base of his tail are sticking up and it is freaking me out.

he ate some dubia roaches on wednesday. he had 3 that were appropriately sized, and then was absolutely stuffed. the next morning he puked up one of them. hasnt eaten anything since, other than the reptaid with baby food. 60cc's.

please help any advice or suggestions. i am quite worried.

here is a link to the flickr photostream of all the pics of him http://www.flickr.com/photos/brookeschuller/sets/72157627578808630/

 

[Beardednoob]

I am most worried about the sand and no mention of calcium supplementation.
He should be supplemented with calcium 4-5 times a week. Since you are using a 10.0 I would use a +D3 calcium supplement, I personally prefer RepCal Calcium.
Sand is a health risk in any dragon under 16 inches

Are you dusting his food?
When was the last time the dragon pooped?

 

[scubasteve25]

i think it's a repti GLO cause they said it was a exo-terra bulb. the previous sand could have impacted the little one, if it is a repti-glo the improper uvb could also be part of it. if you are feeding him mealies, you should put an end to that as well, not very healthy and hard to digest. also how are you measuring the temps, also is the uvb a coil or tube?

 

[MissT]

The twitching is making me think it is the reptiglo. Plus, you have it too close to him. Get a reptisun and mount it 6-8 inches from him.how often are you using the calcium and vitamins?

 

[scubasteve25]

The twitching is making me think it is the reptiglo. Plus, you have it too close to him. Get a reptisun and mount it 6-8 inches from him.how often are you using the calcium and vitamins?

that's what i was thinking, i hope it's not the onset of mbd or anything serious like that

 

[faelexia]

we have always used a calcium supplement, dusted on greens and when he used to accept crickets. i think he didnt like when i dusted the crickets and eventually stopped eating crickets...

we used to feed mealworms, last time he had any has been a month or at least two or three weeks. it was the only thing we had he would eat at the time. last time he had a real poop has been a week ago at least from what my boyfriend and i agree on.

i guess we need to trade out all our exo terra coils. i just dont understand why this is the issue, our other dragons are fine and this one has had most of the outdoor real-sun UV ray hours than any of them.

 

[scubasteve25]

some dragons have issues with them, some dont, no way to know for sure why

 

[Beardednoob]

Each dragon can be different with what UV is acceptable to them. We recommend Reptisun 10.0 linear bulbs because bearded dragons seem to do their best under the light. I have had 3 dragons under the same MVB, same wattage same brand, also the same distances. 2 of those dragons were fine, the 3rd one was becoming less active, eating less and started to keep one eye close 80-85% of the time. So I had to switch him to a Reptisun 10.0 linear tube, after this switch my little guy became better and is now ~1 year old.

I hope in some way this helps :wink:

 

[MissT]

And just to back up Michael's point, I got Phoebe from a reptile shop. There are 20+ bearded dragons in the store at all times. All are in almost identical enclosures and every one of them has a reptiglo 10.0 as uvb source. Phoebe came home to me with PKC, caused by her uvb source - she shared her enclosure with a male so it wasnt a case of being a 'defect' with the bulb.

Possibly, the fact that you have the bulb so close, is making things worse for the little one.
It may seem that all of your beardies are doin ok under the same kind of bulb but, there is a good chance that every one of them would be 'better' under a more reliable uvb source.

 

[Spike54321]

Since you had sand I think that maybe he ate some and has become impacted. How long has it been since he pooped?

 

[Buggsy]

i would also say if you have seen worms in the poop, and his belly is swollen i would think it was a sure case of parasites. You can just pop a fecal sample into the vets and get some medication for him, but i think everyone is getting other points across (i.e. impaction and UVB lighting)

 

[faelexia]

What is PKC?

well for now i am going to continue with the reptaid and baby food, but maybe cut down the amount of baby food to like 15-20cc's.

does anyone think a probiotic would do any good? http://www.jarrow.com/product/228/Jarro_Dophilus_EPS i have capsules of this at home, i could break it open and put a little in his baby food this morning with the reptaid. maybe this would help clear a blockage? or am i just making it worse?

in your experience does the reptaid do anything particular to their poops? i had decided to give it to all of our dragons because it is likely they all have parasites, right, at least from the looks of their poops from what i have read about parasites? and now neither of the other dragons are pooping as much.

would you say that parasites are probably giving them a belly ache, then plus the medicine, and so they dont feel good because of it at first? or is the general consensus that they feel better with the reptaid pretty quickly and their behaviour in general should stay the same or improve... how fast should i be seeing results?

i have to try to believe it is parasites, guys, because if he has a blockage i am screwed. i love this little guy. what would a vet do with a blocked dragon? is there anything to do or am i just going to watch him suffer and starve? i don't know a herp vet, but i know others in the vet community so i know i can get a fecal done. now just waiting for him to take a real poop.

i have to try to fight the parasites, i saw a weird stringy looking worm in his stool so i know there are big parasites in there, and i have to try to believe that it is the parasites who are eating his food, not a sand blockage. i think squash is pretty much a food-push-through the system, so hopefully the baby food will make it better.

should i mix in olive oil with the baby food and reptaid this morning? would probiotics help him pass this possible blockage? we have seen the bulges in his stomach move around, which makes us think he is digesting food, but it wont come out.. i mean what if he is just INFESTED with parasites, isnt it possible? i gotta get these bugs out of my baby!

so if it warms up today i will take my baby outside to bask in the real rays. even though i am a little worried that taking his tank outside will expose him to more parasites and flies (parasite carriers). my boyfriend let cosmos have a fly once or even twice back when he shared a tank with our lemonhead girl, and a moth or two, too, so that might have been what started it all!! i always told him about how we shouldnt do that and that household insects carry diseases and parasites but he is hard headed. well i have it all on lockdown now, all tanks have screens on so no household pests can get in and everything sanitized.

i am so mad they sell those bulbs when all they do is hurt reptiles. the true evils of reptile racket

 

[Buggsy]

OK PKC is photokeryto conjuntivitus (sp?) and is basically damage to the retinas from UVB rays which are too harsh, in the 'bad' bulbs the wavelengths of the rays go so low, sometimes UVC they cause serious damage, it is also a problem if you are not using a bright white light as this discourages them from starting at the UVB (and constricts teh retinas, protecting them further).

I think you should do two things, the first is give him a few drops of olive oil or apple sauce, and two to three warm baths a day. These will help him pass a poop. The water should be warm but not hot (about 90-95F, think baby bath) and about up to his arm pits, he will soak water through his vent and the warmness should help toilet issues. Now when you have a sample i would take it to the vets, reptad is good but in such a sever case (you can see them) i think a perscribed medication is needed. These arnt expensive, usually £10-15 here in england, which includes the vet having a look at the fecal sample, and about £25 for the consult, but as i said im not sure reptad alone will help him.

Probiotics are utter rubbish (i am a medical microbiologist) and it is the yoghurt they are served in that can help, but i think it is a mixture of parasites and being bunged up which are making him uncomfortable. When was the last time he pooped??

Yes indeed wild insects will be riddled with parasites etc so shouldnt be given! but you knew that anyway!

We have all been affected by these bulbs, its why most people come and find the forums so you are not alone there!

 

[faelexia]

kay. we have ALWAYS given baths to help them poo, but i think we got lazy or something. i gave him a bath yesterday but i will do a few today and either just give the reptaid with applesauce or mix in some olive oil w the baby food.

it's been about a week that i remember seeing a real poo. but there are more urates this morning.

have i mentioned he still runs around? wouldnt a blockage be paralyzing him?

the exo terra bulbs are very bright white, and i put it flat down on the screen/mesh so it is like the sun, not in his face... he doesnt stare at it directly.

we are gonna start saving for those mvb bulbs. i want to get the kind that are externally ballasted because the last one we had blew out.

thanks for all your suggestions, everyone, but keep them coming. i need as much info as possible to weigh out all the possibilities and possible routes of action.

if he poops in the bath is it still a good fecal for testing?

*sigh* reptile keeping is a lot harder than i thought it would be...

btw he has been basking under the coil a lot more than usual. i hope these clouds go away so i can take him out for real sun rays.

 

[Buggsy]

under a coil??

by exo terra, do you mean the UVB repti GLO? if so the mesh you are placing it on is blocking out most of the UVB, the UVB tubes should be in the tank (i.e. nothing between him and the bulb but air). The reason i ask you to clarify is that reptiGLO's are bad enough but any coil light is really bad for them and no UVB is better for a week or so.

If he is urinating it prob wont be impaction, but there may not be anything to come out. Have a feel of his belly on the right hand side at the bottom can you feel anything hard at all? They dont get paralised until the blockage is so seveer it traps the spinal cord, but they will show signs before this happens.

Poop in the bath is still good, it all my vet gets really! They have to re-suspend it anyway!

I have just read the sticky on reptaid, it helps aid the recovery from parasites but it wont be curing them so he does indeed need some treatment.