Baby Beardie, Hercules, not eating well...

[Csaynt]

Hello!

On June 30th we purchased our first baby Bearded Dragon. His name is Hercules and we are new to reptiles! He was about 4 1/4 inches when we got him. They said he was about 1 month old at PetSmart--where we purchased him. He doesn't seem to be eating well. We always have a fresh selection of greens for him--collard greens, dandelion greens, some chopped up apples... he doesn't seem to touch it...

We have tried feeding him mealworms and small crickets (dusted with calcium powder). He has eaten both. We fed him mealworms only once--he ate 7 of them the second day we had him. Then we read we maybe shouldn't feed them to him...so we stopped and started feeding him small crickets. He started off strong---eating about 5 in one day. Since then he only has eaten a few a day or none--1, 2, 3 or 5.... For the past 3 days he hasn't eaten any crickets at all! We offer him them twice a day, but he just stands very still--like he is scared! We have fed him in his tank and in a separate feeding tank...we are trying!!! Since he hasn't been eating, I've been feeding him Chicken Baby Food from a spoon for about a week---after trying for an hour or so to get him to eat his crickets.... He seems to love that! I just wish he would eat what he is supposed to be eating. He is going to the bathroom at least once or twice a day in his tank and seems very alert and fine...

Currently (after 2 weeks) he is a little over 4 1/2 inches long. He is very alert and likes to play with his reflection in the glass!

Set up:
20 g tank
Carpet on bottom of tank
100w Basking Spot Lamp
We had a 5.0 Reptisun UVB,UVA light and that burnt out already on Saturday so we now have a 15w T8 lamp (villa slimline fixture)
Basking spot under lamp is about 100-110 degrees.
Cool spot at the other end of tank is about 80+- degrees
two separate thermometers on cool side and hot side of tank.
Bowl of water on cool side of tank
Food bowl with greens on cool side of tank.
Carpet

Any suggestions...we are new to this and don't know what to do...
Thanks,
Christopher (9 years old)
(and Mom!)

 

[kcarello]

Aww!! Your baby is cute!!! I'm not sure what kind of uvb light that is, but you need to get a Reptisun 10.0 tube light and mount it inside the viv with either command hooks or velcro, where your baby can get within 6 - 8 inches from it with a bright white light for basking right next to it.
You have done good to stop the mealworms!!
What are you measuring your temps with? You should get a Accurite digital therm. with a probe, they have them at walmart for $12.00 or so. Leave the probe on the basking surface for at least 45 minutes to an hour, then the same for the hot side and cool side.
It is good he is pooping, at least we know the mealworms have not impacted him.
Lots of baby's don't eat they're salads so don't worry too much about that.
Make sure you are not feeding him anything bigger than the space between his eyes.
You might just have to stop with the baby food and when he gets hungry he should start eating the crickets again. You should be feeding him 2-3 times a day and let him eat as much as he wants in a 10 15 minute period.
Good luck, and let me know if you have any questions.
Kelly

 

[Goodtruant]

you might try phoenix worms (http://www.phoenixworms.com), they are what sparked our beardies appetite.

And yes, a reptisun 10.0 linear tube will help out alot also.

 

[Csaynt]

Thanks for your responses! We really appreciate it.

Last night he did not eat any crickets. I decided NOT to feed him babyfood---like I had been doing if he wouldn't eat crickets. I was hoping he would be hungry in the AM--but he ate no crickets this morning either.

After buying a digital thermometer with probe, I noticed his temps were a little high. So I changed his UVB light to the Retisun 10.0. I also changed his basking light to a 50w basking spot lamp.the new temps are as follows.

110-112 degrees (digital thermometer with probe in basking spot)
97-100 degrees in hot side of tank
90 degrees with probe (thermometer on side of tank says almost 80 degrees)- in cool side of tank. (it's a hot day here in CT and my airconditioning isn't working too good upstairs)

We will give him a bit and try to feed him crickets in a little bit. Hopefully he will eat a few!

We spoke with a lady today at a local chain pet store and she was so not helpful. She said 110 was really hot for his basking spot. Is it? She also didnt think the lights/bulbs would make a difference. She actually made my son upset saying he shouldn't touch or bother the dragon and that maybe we should return him since he isn't eating. Ugh! We love Hercules and just want to help him grow andbe a great friend to my son. He has lots of allergies and needed a friend he wasnt allergic to. We thought, and continue to think, that a bearded dragon is a perfect pet for him. I just hope we can get our new friend to eat!! I also ordered some phoenixworms for him too. If anyone has any other ideas as to how to get him to eat, let us know!

Thanks!
Crystal
(Christopher's mom)

 

[jsnsan]

Arent pet stores great......... :x
I wonder if it's just relocation stress? I'd recommend doing a fecal to check for parasites. But for some reason I remember reading that you don't want to do a fecal until they have settled in for about a month, due to stress and misleading counts. Can someone chime in and tell us if that is correct please?
I'm sure your baby will be just fine. He looks very alert and healthy so far.

 

[jsnsan]

Oh, I forgot to ask. How are you giving him his crickets? My girl won't hunt/chase her crickets. I have to put them in the freezer for a minute or two to paralize them. Then give them to her...she gobbles them right up. If there are any left over, I just put them back in the cricket keeper. They warm up and start moving again...as long as you havent left them in the freezer for too long.

 

[Goodtruant]

You might try to lower the temp a bit. Babies seem to like it a bit hotter, around 105-110.

We has ours at around 110, and ended up lowering to about 104 and Draper started basking much more. He was about 2 months old at the time. We put our basking lamp on a dimmer switch, so we could adjust.

 

[twinmommy]

Its really hard to get the temps right with a proper temp gradient in a 20g tank. The minimum size you will need as an adult is a 40 g. 90 is a little high for the cool side. Its sounds like he could be too hot. Too hot =dehydration. Dehydration will quickly lead to a very sick baby. Are you bathing him at all? Do you ever see him drink out of the water dish? Most babies don't. A water dish will only increase the humidity in the viv which can lead to respiratory problems.
I would start shopping for a 40g viv and start bathing 2-3 x a week for 15 minutes. Beardies absorb water thru their vent.
Good luck!

 

[ZZDragons]

Please look at our ZZdragons posts and your boy could find a friend in my son. Sam, my son, was in the same boat and two years later we have a big, healthy beardie, Zoe. Sam has eczema, asthma and allergies. There is a great pic of him with Zeus our new baby both playing on the computer.

Okay, part of the nervousness comes into play because your son is involved, I know. We did not know for the first several months about the Reptisun 10 thing so already you are on the right track but get that tube inside the terrarium within 6 to 9 inches. The screen top interference actually drops UVB output by more than half. Our current baby is an eater but we had one who was not for awhile. The rule with hatchlings is do not feed anything bigger than their eye. Their stomachs are only about as big as their eye when they are 4 inches long anyway. KEEP HIM HYDRATED. HE WILL NOT EAT VERY MUCH OR ANYTHING IF HE DOES NOT HAVE ENOUGH MOISTURE INSIDE. REPTILES LIKE BEARDIES SHUT DOWN WITHOUT ENOUGH WATER. OUR BREEDER TOLD US THAT IF THE TEMPS ARE ABOVE 100 AND THERE IS NO REAL COOL SPOT IN THE HIGH 70s IN THE TANK, GIVE HIM A BATH IN A LARGE TUPPERWARE BOWL OR BABY BATH TUB AND LOWER THE TEMPS ACCORDLINGLY BUT NOT TOO MUCH. THE WATER SHOULD ONLY REACH TO HIS BELLY-HE WILL ABSORB THROUGH HIS VENT. He may run around like crazy but let him soak for at least 20 minutes every 3 days or so. He will probably poop in the bath which is normal. Get him out, dump the poopy water in the toilet, rinse and wash the container and put him back until his total soak time reaches twenty minutes.

The other thing- how hot is it where you live outside? We live in Utah so the desert air is perfect; low humidity. We give our baby 20 minutes in the sun in the summer (95 to 100 degrees) and then a good bath for hydration. You can't beat the sun in small doses for UVB. But, don't put him in a container that is glass or totally enclosed. Try a closed off area open to the sun but make sure the spot he picks to bask is not over 110 degrees. Stones and rocks heat up outside almost too much. Zeus likes to bask on my thumb. Do not feed until two hours after a bath and he dries out.

Now, I will let you know about a special recipe that our A-1 reptile breeder told us to help the little guys eat. But, here is the disclaimer- crickets and powdered crickets are best!! At 4 1/2 inches, your guy looks younger than 3 months or he has been underfed and dehydrated. PET STORES ARE NOTORIOUS FOR CRAMMING TOO MANY BABY BEARDIES TOGETHER, THUS STRESSING THEM OUT MAKING THEM PRONE TO LOWER WEIGHT, INFECTIONS, PARASITES, BITTEN OFF TOES AND TAILS. GOOD NEWS IS YOU PROBABLY RESCUED HERCULES.

In no way do we advocate force feeding Hercules- he could aspirate. I know you just want him to eat but don't force it with the baby food. We lost a beardie perhaps with the baby food- he might have got some in his lungs. A little on the finger if you use baby food is all you need. The crickets, due to his size should be no bigger than his eye if he is this small. When he hits about 7 to 8 inches long, the between the eyes rule will apply. We order 1/8 inch crickets from Ghanns- you can find them online. Larger crickets could be scaring Hercules. The smallest size at most pet stores is 1/4 inch thus they are not helpful again. Make sure you have a good cricket keeper and order enough online to keep the cost per cricket below 10 cents each including shipping.

Recipe: 1 boiled egg, 1 strawberry, vineless collard greens- one large leaf (take a sharp knife and take all of the rough veins out of the greens. Cut in between the veins so you just have thin strips of collard greens with no tough veins! These will cause impaction if left on the greens). You can double the portions of each to get about a months worth but be careful- two strawberries at once cause a liquid mess.

Then, chop each part of the mixture separately into pieces as small as his eye. I mean really, really small. We use a pampered chef chopper or you can use a food shredder of some kind. I MEAN REALLY, REALLY SMALL I POUND THAT SUCKER SO THE NEIGHBORS CAN HEAR IT. The whites of the hard boiled egg are stubborn and will try to stay bigger, get those puppies smaller or as small as his eye. The boiled egg will get really fluffy- the fluff in the mix is key because it will help prevent aspiration into the lungs. Then mix it all together- I like to mix it all together with the chopper. Then, you can put the mixture in the fridge. A day's portion for a little guy is about the size of the end of an adult thumb or about a teaspon- just a few bites. So, get about 7 days worth in a ziplock baggie and keep it in the fridge. Take the rest and put it in 7 day portions (about 7 teaspoons per bag) each in a zip lock baggie and put them in the freezer. Boiled egg and strawberry have about a weeks life in the fridge thus keeping it frozen until ready is best.

Before using the first 7 day portion, dry it off a little bit in a paper towel so it is not so liquidity and more fluffy, then sprinkle the Repti-Cal calcium all over it. Do the same paper towel thing with each zip lock baggie after letting it thaw to remove excess moisture and condensation.

Feed this once a day in the morning after he warms up for an hour. You can just put the chunk in front of him or hold it in your hand- he should eat it- do not force feed it to him. Zeus was trained since he was small to eat it so I am not sure about other beardies. But, the smell of it with the strawberries should make it irresistable. Then, stick with the very small 1/8 inch cricket feedings- every 3rd feeding powdered calcium crickets and once a week calcium and vitamin powder together, as many as he will eat in ten minutes twice per day starting the first shortly after he eats some egg mixture. This mixture will usually help stimulate his appetite, keep him healthy and fatten him up a little. Leave the egg mixture in there, not on a papertowel or carpet (it can dry out too much) but in a reachable dish or bowl until the second feeding of the day. It can dry out and get hard which is not good for him- throw away what he has not eaten. Remove any crickets at the end of the day out of his terrarium. Crickets left in the terrarium will actually chew on him while he sleeps and could cause sores and infection.

If you don't see any improvement, check his poop and see if it is really runny or smelly. If so, we can talk about fecal tests but for now try this mixture and regimen.

Our boy Zeus with this recipe and small 1/8 inch crickets, lower temps around 100, reptisun 10 within 8 inches and regular hydrating baths almost tripled his weight in 4 weeks (9 grams to 27 grams) and grew an inch and a half (6 inches to 7 1/2). Love your Greek name, Hercules, we are partial to the same Greek genre with Zoe and Zeus.

I hope this helps- hang in there and my heart along with my son's heart, goes out to you and your son.

 

[Csaynt]

Thank you all for your replies! I changed all the lighting and played with the temperatures in his tank. I think they are good. Hercules is doing well--still not eating crickets, but I ordered smaller ones for him--since apparently the 'small crickets' at the pet store are still big crickets. Hopefully that will do the trick.

I tried not feeding him baby food for a day and a half, but he still wasn't eating the crickets. We offer them to him and he has been watching them, but not going after them...at least he is watching them again! It's the little things! Anyway, last night we gave him a bit of baby food. I have never force fed him. I put it up to him with a little spoon and he is interested in it. Last night he licked away like he was hungry, hungry, hungry. We also gave him a bath yesterday. Not sure what he thought about it, but we did it! How often should we do that?

ZZDragons--thanks for your response. My son read your response this morning and we started making the recipe. I'm sure Hercules will love it. I'm hoping that and the smaller crickets will get him moving in the right direction!

 

[Csaynt]

An update on our baby Hercules. Poor little fella. We are doing all we can for this little guy. He is still not eating crickets. Our Phoenixworms arrived today and he didn't pay much attention to them. I made him the mixture of eggs, strawberries and collard greens. He licked up a bit, but seems to prefer the Chicken baby food. I leave some of the mixture in his food dish, just in case he wants it. I can't tell if he touches it or not... We have been bathing him to keep him hydrated. He seemed fine all day, but this evening seems a little lazy and sleepy and didn't really seem interested in the baby food. I don't force feed him, he usually just licks it up.
We love Hercules, even though we have only had him for 3 weeks. We will continue to offer him crickets, phoenix worms, the mixture and baby food. I sure hope he is okay and catches on to eating soon! My poor son is heartbroken that he isn't doing well...we are so new to this and we aren't sure what else we can do...

 

[kcarello]

Hey, I have been reading these replies and I think it might be a good ideal to pm Drache613, her name is Tracie and she is a genius when it comes to dragons. She might be able to help you, if anyone can, it will be her. I really want there to be a great outcome with Hercules, so please pm her.
Kelly

 

[Goodtruant]

http://www.reptaid.com/ I've heard that reptaid can really help reptiles with no appetite.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I did PM you back, but wanted to check in on your thread too.
How is Hercules doing today?
Great responses & suggestions from everyone.

I agree, one other thing I wanted to cover was the ambient or overall temperatures of the tank. In the smaller tanks it can be hard to keep the temperatures from getting too hot. Try to get the cool side to around 78 instead & with the basking temperature of a range of 95-105 or a max of 110, the overall temps should be fine.
He may be getting too hot, possibly.
How are his stools looking so far, how much urate is with the stool?
Keep up with the baby food feedings to help with nutrition. He is a cutie, very tiny!
Do you have a picture of your tank setup, did I miss it?

Tracie

 

[Csaynt]

Tracie,

Thank you so very much for your reply! Hercules seems to be doing okay today. To me, he seems a little sleepy--but he is walking about his cage and interacting with us. He has been exploring his tank more--going from the the warm side to the cooler side. I too am thinking he is getting too hot--he didn't seem to bask under the basking light much today. That's where he seems to always hang out... We have been taking temps today trying to make it perfect for him. My son has been measuring them all week! We try not to let it get over 110... at the moment it's about 107ish in the basking spot. 99 in the warm side. Cool side is about 80ish...

Here is a photo of his tank setup. Again, we are new to this--so any changes or suggestions are welcome! In his food dish is a little dab of babyfood and my son was getting some greens cut up to put in there too. We aren't sure if he touches them, but they always fresh and are there if he wants them.

Today he went to the bathroom at least twice. They were small black and white in coloring. A little more black than white...

We also gave him a bath this afternoon. He seemed a little sleepy, but then his eyes were wide open and he walked around in the water and was quite active.

Here is a photo of him after hanging out after eating this morning...

We are continuing with the chicken baby food--I've also added a little green beans and/or squash to the baby food sometimes. He seems to enjoy it. In the beginning he was just licking the syringe or spoon. Now he really gets into it--I love to see how big his little mouth is! The past few days I also noticed he has been really going for the food like he did a few weeks ago with the cricket or two he ate. I"m hoping that means maybe he will go for crickets and/or worms soon... I hope it's not that he's mad at us...

Thanks for your help and support! The pet store we got him at try to help, but they seem to not know anything! We are new to this, but we love Hercules and want to take care of him properly.

Thanks again,
Crystal