Atadenovirus or fatty liver? Please help!

[Socal95]

Hey all,
So my little guy is just over a year and a half and had been eating poorly. I began loading him up on the fattier insects in hope to avoid weight loss. It's been rather hot lately and he had been rather lethargic so I took him to the vet and she confirmed he was pretty dehydrated..the temps in his tank were getting between 110-115 daily. I gave him injections of fluids for 4 days and am finishing up his antibiotics..the last dose is on Wednesday. Now my question is because his liver has suffered some damage (probably due to me making the lazy and unfortunate decision to feed him beardie fast food coupled with generally poor eating habits) what should I feed him in the mean time to get him back on track and feeling fine? The last two days I've been blending up some veggies (collard, turnip, and mustard greens) with some carrots and feeding him with a syringe. I tried giving him some crickets today and saw him eat 2 or 3 but he's still kinda slow and seemed disinterested after awhile. Should I just stick to the veggies until he is feeling better anyway to avoid excess fat intake? Any recommendations would help a lot...he's my first bearded dragon and has had a clean bill of health until winter came around and went into brumation.

 

[Socal95]

Anyone...?

 

[rpaine]

115 is way too hot for the entire enclosure. My beardie doesn't seem to enjoy his basking spot over about 100-105 and the cool side of my terrarium goes down to the mid 80's (even a few degrees cooler than that inside the cool side hide). I know if my overall cage temp starts to get too warm (It is summer here in Alabama) I turn on a small fan to push air through the vents on cage and he perks right up . There are many much more knowledgeable folks here than myself but that temp jumped out at me as high.
-Ralph

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

What are you taking the temperatures with, a digital probe or a temp gun?
I would recommend decreasing the basking temperatures to a range of 95-105 with a cooler end of around 78-82 for him.
I think continuing slurries with greens & veggies are terrific. What other insects have you offered him now? He still needs protein so I suggest maybe either roaches or crickets to feed him, too.
Since his liver could use some support maybe try some milk thistle & serrapeptase to help with his liver & overall health.
Do you have any pictures?
Which UVB are you using?/

Tracie

 

[Socal95]

Hello,

What are you taking the temperatures with, a digital probe or a temp gun?
I would recommend decreasing the basking temperatures to a range of 95-105 with a cooler end of around 78-82 for him.
I think continuing slurries with greens & veggies are terrific. What other insects have you offered him now? He still needs protein so I suggest maybe either roaches or crickets to feed him, too.
Since his liver could use some support maybe try some milk thistle & serrapeptase to help with his liver & overall health.
Do you have any pictures?
Which UVB are you using?/

Tracie

Hey Tracie,
I have a digital probe that sits on his basking spot at all times and I've made sure it doesn't get above 103...I've tried giving him crickets today after avoiding bugs since Thursday and I caught him eating a couple but every time he catches me watching him he promptly stops what he's doing and stares right back at me so I left..I'm sure they all ran under the carpet. He seemed a bit slow at hunting. However, he is much more active since I started him on the iv fluids and antibiotic regimen my vet gave me..also been soaking him a bit each day. I'm going to order dubia online as the closest store that has them is Petco and they're either dead or off the shelf each time I go in. If it is fatty liver which I suspect it is..will he be able to make a full recovery? He looks nowhere near as bad as some of the little ones I've seen on here but he is my first and I feel extremely guilty for allowing his dietary habits to get so bad. He never was fond of his veggies so I always went heavy on the bugs. Also, I noticed that he makes a short whistle sound when he is struggling to get away from me because I've been harassing him with needles and slurry these past few days..he doesn't make that noise unless frantically trying to get away from me..of course since he's already sick my first thought is it being the beginning of a RI since he's been in the bath virtually every day for 20 min at a time for the past two weeks. Is this something I should actually be concerned about or is it likely just a noise due to stress? Also, I am using a reptisun 10 which is probably due to be replaced and will do so in the morning...I'll post pics tomorrow as the little guy is fast asleep on his rock

 

[Taterbug]

How did the vet diagnose liver damage? Remember you can always call or email your vet to get follow up treatment advice.

Pepper and I were in a similar situation. He had a strong love of superworms that I indulged him in. My vet took bloods and found elevated bile acids (iirc) which can indicate fatty liver. Pepper was put on hepatocare which is a pharmaceutical of the active ingredient of milk thistle and had his bloods checked after his treatment and again after a few weeks of discontinued treatment. As my vet told me, fortunately the liver has good regenerative properties so it can heal.

For diet don't fast him, this can cause the body to start metabolizing the fat stores in the body and make the liver work harder. Slower but healthier foods like silkworms or BSFL might be good, or dish feeding roaches. For Pepper asking as he was eating something regularly she didn't recommend assist feeding since it's stressful and all. I did offer slurries on the snout or for him to lick off the syringe though, a bit less traumatic than forceing.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I did forget to ask if the vet did a blood test, that is usually how it is diagnosed.
He can definitely recover because livers are amazing at recovering! As suggested, just go slow on the weight loss & change of diet to allow the body's metabolism to adjust.
Lean sources of protein with small amounts of fat are good, along with greens & any needed slurries.
The basking temperatures are good now, he should be fine.
You could cut back on the baths but the noises he is making are most likely a hissing from stress.

Let us know how he is doing!

Tracie

 

[Socal95]

Hey guys,
So my beardie is doing better as far as moving around..he's not hiding in his cave anymore and is running around his tank more often. However, his eating is still a bit spotty. He will eat one day and then barely eat the next. Or he will only eat a couple bugs and refuse to touch his veggies..I've been sprinkling bee pollen on them and adding fresh strawberries to stimulate appetite but he doesn't seem to even acknowledge the veggies are there. I have a follow up app with the vet today. The liver issues were diagnosed from a blood sample..she said it could be either the liver or the gallbladder. Will know more when I take him in. He weighed in at 443 g last time so he isn't deathly sick. Mind you I adopted him from work after another bearded dragon bit his tail so his tail is probably half the size it should be...probably wouldn't add too much weight to his body but still

 

[Socal95]

So I took him in and they weighed him...he weighed in at 438 g. He lost 5 g since the last vet visit 10 days ago. The vet seems to think he has adenovirus which I don't agree with as he's shown zero signs of it other than high liver enzymes. I was given some more antibiotics just in case it was a bacterial infection but he has no parasites..she didn't seem to think it was as likely to be fatty liver..

 

[Socal95]

So I posted a thread earlier this month because my beardie wasn't eating very well and had classic symptoms of dehydration..Wrinkled skin and sunken eyes..took him to the vet and came home with some antibiotics and fluids to hydrate him. Well it's been 10 days and his appetite hasn't increased..he will eat super worms but that's about it. And maybe 4-6 of them. He's been a bit off lately as he will stare at me if he notices I'm watching him and will let his bugs run away. Is this just him being a "teenager" and being dehydrated on top of a possible fatty liver? He has never really wanted his veggies but used to eat like a monster when he was little. He is now 1 year and 8 months and with half a tail he is the length of the tip of my fingers to halfway down my arm. The vet seems to think adenovirus is the culprit...but I'm skeptical of that. Please any info and advice would be very appreciated as I am incredibly worried about my little guy.

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, there's no reason to think he has ADV until you have him tested. Drache613 [ one of the mods here ] can do the test for you for a very low price. She belongs to an organization that researches + tests for ADV. So send her a p.m....or she will probably respond here tonight anyway.

An adult beardie does not eat anywhere near the amounts of a growing dragon. And the ones that get a preference for superworms can really be picky....my boys get that way, too.

I don't think any of his symptoms sound too alarming. I think that he may have been overheated + dehydrated [ per your other thread which maybe a mod. will merge with this ] and then the antibiotics mess with their appetite, too. Losing 5-10 grams is not anything at all....they can lose much more than that with one large poo. So try not to worry, keep offering food and see about having Tracie [ Drache613 ] test him. He's very possibly going to be fine.

 

[Socal95]

I should mention that a blood sample revealed elevated liver enzymes..but that could simply be that he wasn't eating due to being really dehydrated right? He has no other symptoms other than the lack of appetite so the adenovirus thing just seems a bit much. She also mentioned cancer for a 1 year and 8 month beardie

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am going to merge your two threads so we can keep the information together.


Tracie

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Do you have a copy of the blood tests I could see?
You are positive your dragon is male & not a female with eggs?
If he isn't wanting to eat much greens you can give blended greens slurries to help out with hydration. Which antibiotic did the vet prescribe for him?
Be sure you give him a probiotic also, to help him replenish his system while he is on meds.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Socal95]

Hello,

Do you have a copy of the blood tests I could see?
You are positive your dragon is male & not a female with eggs?
If he isn't wanting to eat much greens you can give blended greens slurries to help out with hydration. Which antibiotic did the vet prescribe for him?
Be sure you give him a probiotic also, to help him replenish his system while he is on meds.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

Hey Tracie,
I forgot the antibiotics the vet prescribed the first time around but that was only 3 shots...she has now prescribed clyndamycin liquid for me to give him twice a day. I believe he is a male..I sexed him and he has been to the vet twice so if I made the mistake I would hope they would have caught it..I don't have a copy of the blood tests but will ask the vet office for them tomorrow morning. When giving slurries should I force feed him if he is unwilling to eat? I recently relocated his terrarium to help with the temperature issue and he seems to be rather stressed seeing my dogs run around as he is now downstairs.