Advice PLEASE!!!!!

[Drache613]

Hello!

You are welcome. Let me know what the vet says.
Liver issues can be hard to treat but, not impossible. The liver does have regenerative properties. That is great you already started the Milk thistle. You can give that to him daily. The thing is, the white blood cell count did not appear elevated though, so I am not sure it would be cancer. I hope not. Do you bathe him in tap water or filtered water?
How much weight loss are we talking about here? Drastic amounts & what is the time frame of the loss?
I think I would also start him on critical care to make sure he is getting adequate amounts of nutrition right now. Has he thrown up at all?
The Activia should be ok fine as long as it is the dairy free. You mentioned that he seems to like it?
What are you keeping his nighttime temperatures at? Around 80 or so is good to help his immune system. The range of 95-110 during the day is great.

Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

 

[PicosParent]

Thank-you Esther. I just feel so helpless and scared right now. Seeming my little Baby Boo suffer is killing me. I just want to help him a.d don't know how My husband says that he can see that Pico feels better and seems most comfortable when I am holding him because he knows how much he is loved and cherished.

 

[AHBD]

Anyone reading this post can see that you're a great and caring owner, nowhere near being " horrid" . So give yourself a break, you're doing everything you can think of possibly to help. As far as extra heat to aid in digestion, generally it's to be sure that the cool side [ if the dragon spends much time there ] is no less than 80 degrees [ up to 83] and night temps. are around 80. But just be careful that those temps. don't get ccranked up too high. And see the bit of progress already, he has had some drinks + a bit of nutrition and held it down. ? So there's something to be hopeful for.

 

[PicosParent]

Again, I thank all of you. I am just so exhausted....he doesn't want me to put him down, I am guessing he is scared....so I sit up with him until about 2:00 am and then I get up at 6:00 so I have time to feed him the Carnivore Care, his Rx, the water mixed with Milk Thistle and small amounts of water in between. It takes about an hour. Right now I look like a football player with the dark under my eyes! :evil: But, it matches his so hey, like mommy, like son right

Tracie, Dr. Wright called me back and he said he did more research (he is AWESOME!!!!) and that he saw over and over that the AST can be up to 90 or 95 and still be ok. He asked me to check with you where you found that difference because he wants to read about it to learn more to help Pico. Poor guy, I call at least once a day.....I told him just call me "Pam the Pest for Pico". He said I was not a pest and he wants the best for him and that I should keep doing research and asking folks questions and he is doing the same. I can't believe how blessed we are to have him for our vet!!!

As to the weight loss; June 27th appointment he weighed 614 grams
July 16th appointment he weighed 507 grams

No puking since we started the Baytril but he has had diarrhea the past two days.

Nighttime temp between 78 and 82 degrees. Daytime in the 90's and basking spot about 110, cool side about 85 degrees.

I assume Critical Care is the same as Carnivore Care that I am giving him? It's a powder you mix with water and feed animals who are sick so they get nutrition and put weight on?

He is getting Carnivore Care, Jump Start, water with Milk thistle, a little water, pedialyte, and a little of the yogurt. I think I am going to stop that though as Dr. Wright said that unfortunately there is not enough information on their systems and we humans have different good and bad
flora and bacteria so I have to be careful what I am killing off. He said to stick to the one I give three drops of for Digestive Tract for now and to not give more than one product with vitamins as I don't want to overload his system. Since I am nixing the yogurt, I am going to try the "slurrie" that AHBD recommended when I get home this afternoon.

The product I use for his Digestive tract is Acidophilz. Anyone know anything about that???? Also, my Reptaid XL should be here today, CAN I USE THAT WITH THE BAYTRIL????

Tracie, Please just tell me any and all advice you have about what to do.....I so fear time is running out!!! The vet is out of ideas but will try anything that I learn from you guys. He said the Milk Thistle probably wouldn't hurt so I should monitor if it is helping. He wants me to keep him abreast of all that is going on so that it is a learning experience for him as well.
You had mentioned something about liquid therapy in an earlier e-mail and then said the liver has regenerative properties. OK, What do I have to do to do these things?? I am scared and out of ideas. He is going down hill FAST and he looks into my eyes with just a pleading intense look that is screaming for me to help him.

 

[AHBD]

Hi Pam....you poor girl, get yourself some rest and you'll be able to help Pico better. I really feel for you. Thankfully you have a very compassionate vet. As for the Acidophiliz, yes, that is what is recommended to restore gut flora. Sometimes when people advise to use a probiotic, they lump the 3 choices together, which are the Acidophiliz, soy yogurt, and Benebac. So you can just stick with the Acidoph. Yes, he's lost alot of weight, but he still is pretty meaty. If he can get some nutrition slowly, hopefully he will improve. Hang in there ! Oh, and as for the Reptaid, I would suggest that any new thing you introduce to him, give just a very small amount at first to see how it's tolerated. And hopefully he can tolerate a small amount of the slurries.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Pam,

How are things this morning?
Is he looking at the measurement of iu/L or U/L? The values are a little different there.
The ranges are iu/L 0-92 range & the U/L according to the book are 5-130.
Being on the upper end is not a good indicator.
I think the bilirubin should be looked at which can help determine if there is liver damage & an ultrasound should be done, too.
I had some lower values written, but they are not mentioned in the book, so I will just some references to the book with the chapter that he can look at.

The book is Reptile Medicine & Surgery, 2nd Edition by Mader
The values are listed on page 1109 for the overall values.

Then the chapter for Hepatic Lipidosis is page 806 by Stephen J Hernandez-Divers & John E Cooper
On page 808 there is a chart for Values for Assessing of Liver Disease.

He should be able to find that book easily for reference. I am concerned because normally most blood tests I see are values of well below these numbers.
Treatment of tube feeding possibly, but use with care not to overdo the liquid in the tummy for gastric distress. He could be started on Lactulose quickly if they can confirm fatty liver, etc.
I will write more later, I have some errands to run today.
Let me know what he says!

Tracie

 

[PicosParent]

Hi Folks,
Well we tried the "slurrie"; collard greens, kale, mustard greens, blue berries, crickets, water and a portion of a milk thistle capsule. He had 3 syringes of it and only puked up a little so that is good. He is sleeping under his basking light now. Tango was very curious so I let him have a little too (out of a separate syringe and container of course!). He really seemed to like it but I would not let him have much as the milk thistle was in it. It probably won't do a darn thing but the last thing I need are two sick babies!!!! thank you AHBD for the "recipe" and the kind words. I took some pics last night that I will try to get on that photobucket page and upload onto here later. I want you to see the difference in him from 2 weeks.
Tracie thank you and I am going to see if there is an e-mail address that I can cut and paste that info to him. Thanks again!!!
I hope he is doing well and I can get some sleep tonight!!!! I can't see straight!!!

 

[Drache613]

Hello!

I am PM'ing you my email address as that may be easier for more communication if you would like. That is great he held down his food as well.
How are his colors looking so far today?
I hope you both are getting some rest!

Tracie

 

[PicosParent]

Thank you SO much Tracie!!!! He is still very dark and lethargic His tummy looks bloated now too. I sent that info to the vet too. Thanks!!!

 

[AHBD]

How's he doing ? I'm glad to hear he took some of the slurrie ! I hope it wasn't too much, and that he kept it down, and that he's doing a little better.

 

[PicosParent]

I forwarded Tracie's ideas to my vet. He is on vacation but e-mailed me back and is willing to try them. We are going to do another blood test as that one was 4 months ago and things have changed so drastically. He said the slurry was a good idea and if it is indeed the fatty liver as Tracie suggested, eating was the best thing for him so the slurry may be the reason he is still alive today!!!! Thank you AHBD!!!!

I wish I could meet all his previous owners and let them see what their neglect has caused!!!!! The girl I bought him from got him from someone who decided reptiles ""weren't her thing and she had bought him from someone else....I have no idea how many owners he had but he was always supposedly in the same tank he was in when I got him....a tank too small, with sand, no UVB, no basking light.....just a stupid purple night view light with minimal heat....he had been abused too, missing long toe on his back foot, several inches of tail gone, big scar on his nose.....I fell in love with him the second I met him and can't even imagine anyone would get rid of him!!!!!! He is so loving and awesome!!!! I can't wait until he is better and I get a big old Pico hug again!!!! He puts the underside of his chin on my chin and mouth and puts his little hand on either side of my mouth and just squeezes. I can't believe how much I am missing and craving that hug!!!! At least today he has the strength to wrap his little hands around me wrist when I am holding him. He could not even do that yesterday

I am thankful to God for bringing this bundle of love into my life and I am glad that I am his owner as I will do whatever it takes to nurse him back to health and all those ignorant, *****s that owned him prior obviously would have let him die....I won't!!! All of you have been so amazingly supportive and helpful. I only stayed up with him until 1:00 am and when my husband got up for work at 4:00 am, I went and got him and wrapped him in a towel and brought him in and laid him on my chest to sleep until I got up at 6:00 am for work. I can't wait to sleep in tomorrow!!!! LOL
Lets just hope all people who get beardies realize how important the proper lighting, heat, food and viv are and start taking care of their lizards!!!

A few weeks ago, I was in Pet Smart getting some things for my babies and I always stop and look at their baby beardies when I am in any pet store. Well, there was one baby in the cage and he was in the front scared to death shaking and stress lines galore! I looked to see what was wrong and there was a skenk in the cage with him!!!! I went up and got the cashier, she had never touched a lizard and didn't know what to do. I offered to hold the beardie baby while she got that skenk out of there. It acted very mean and I can say I would not have picked it up! She grabbed it and it dashed and a big piece of its tail came off in her hand. She was very traumatized by having caused that and it ran up to the water and backed up until its tail was soaking in it.....pretty smart little guy! I felt so bad for both of them!
She got a manager and he was able to catch it and put it into another tank. I saw they had sand in the tank and that the lights were not UVB. They had me show them what to put in from their supplies and I held the baby while they vacuumed out the sand and put down the reptile carpet (I personally use tile but we were at PetSmart, not Home Depot) down and changed out the lights. My quick stop there turned into over an hour but it was well worth it because that baby will not have to suffer later for ignorance and the people working there will be able to show the customers who buy beardies how to PROPERLY set up their tanks. I feel this is my mission in life now to make up for what my Pico went through. I wish ignorant people were not allowed to own pets until they cured their ignorance with proper knowledge!!!!

 

[BeardieMommy3991]

Thats so awesome that the petstore changed their setup! Now that little baby will be healthy and safe. <3

So great that you found out what might be wrong with Pico! Now you can treat it and make him feel better. You are such an amazing owner.

 

[PicosParent]

Thank you Beardie Mommy 3991! I appreciate you saying that. I do hope we have a good handle on it, I have no plans on giving up. Your signature picture is so darn cute!!!

 

[mistygirl]

Just read your posts, you are a great mommy who is doing everything you can. I know how expensive those vet visits are, especially since beardies are considered "exotics"...and reptile specialists are few are far between. I am surprised you cannot find soy yogurt. Do you have an organic food section in your supermarket or a trader joe's or whole foods or health food store around you? I am hoping and praying for you.

 

[AHBD]

Your'e welcome Pam ! ...I really hope he can pull out of this. Every little bit of progress counts right now.