3 yr old beardie died unexpectedly?

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Haxaurous

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Hello, so my 3 year old male beardie was acting strange the days leading up to his death (Tuesday, 6-16-2015). The Friday before, I had given him a bath and cleaned everything in his tank. I used mainly water to clean everything, but used a non-toxic cleaner to clean his tiles. After washing and drying everything (but leaving his log out overnight to dry), I put him back in his tank for the night as it was past his bedtime. The next day, his beard was black, so I thought something had bothered him. Later, I gave him a pretty standard mix (collard greens, turnip leaves, mustard greens, and butternut squash). He barely touched it, and wasn't as active as he usually is. Plus, his beard was still black. The next day, still a black beard, still not much eating. On Monday, his beard was still black. He seemed to like when I misted him, though. He didn't really drink, but seemed to enjoy the feeling. He pooped once, but it was very watery, so I laid off on the misting. My mom gave him around 10 or so live crickets (usually he gets more, but she was just trying to get him to eat), and they're usually devoured in ~45 seconds-1 minute, but he barely took notice of them. Later, I noticed he had eaten maybe 5 or 6 of them, but was still not super alert. Also, he had pooped again, and it was solid and a good color. I picked him up, thinking he only needed attention, and sat down with him for about an hour and a half, as he kept falling asleep on me. His beard was still black, and I eventually put him to bed, since he seemed drowsy.
The next morning, he was still on his log, beard still dark. I called my mom and asked if she could set up a vet appointment soon because he was acting weird, but around 11:30 am I went back to check on him and he had moved from his log to sit in his dish in an awkward position, his head was up, eyes half-open and his mouth slightly ajar. I thought I saw him move, so I misted him with some water, but he didn't even blink. He wasn't breathing, and I realized he had died. He was buried later that day, although I now regret not taking his body in for necropsy, but I was too upset to think about this at the time.
Is there any clue here as to how he could have died?
Tank Information:
-36lx13wx12h (a bit too small, I know; he was going to be switched into a bigger tank this week)
-Tile substrate
-about 84 F on cool side, usually around 98 F on hot side
-ate a mix of collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, and butternut squash, but also had endive, bok choy, kale, some dried grasshoppers/mealworms (never ate live mealworms/superworms for some reason?), live crickets (calcium dusted), and LOVED raspberries but he only had them about once a month as a treat; he had just turned 3 so he had some the week before. also ate strawberries, the occasional basil leaf, sometimes a mint leaf, sometimes a rose petal, some parsley, some prickly pear, etc., also gave him some of the Zilla Bearded Dragon Fortified Food, but only ever with his usual veggies, never alone.
-had a heat bulb and a coil UVB bulb (dunno the brand, probably the Zilla one; I think it was last changed in August 2014) in the tank he was in, but his new tank has a UVB rod in it (Zoo Med 10.0)

Thank you!
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
How horrible - I really feel for you. :(

Only things I can suggest are :
- a bug that had been sprayed or poisoned (in your home, yard or from the neighbourhood) found it's way into the enclosure, and was eaten resulting in poisoning your dragon
- it ate a dead cricket that was going off
- it had been sick for a long time but not enough to show it with a black beard or obvious signs of being ill until recently when it was severely ill and in pain upset (black beard).
 

Haxaurous

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":1p116dxb said:
How horrible - I really feel for you. :(

Only things I can suggest are :
- a bug that had been sprayed or poisoned (in your home, yard or from the neighbourhood) found it's way into the enclosure, and was eaten resulting in poisoning your dragon
- it ate a dead cricket that was going off
- it had been sick for a long time but not enough to show it with a black beard or obvious signs of being ill until recently when it was severely ill and in pain upset (black beard).
Yeah, I think he had been sick and never really showed symptoms until it was really painful... it's too bad I couldn't get him help earlier :/ I can't help but feel guilty; he was probably in a lot of pain. thank you so much for your reply and your concern!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Hi there, I'm soooo sorry that you lost your beardie ! My heart goes out to you . :( It could have been an unseen illness but the fact that it coincided with the tank cleaning is suspicious. I highly doubt it was a bad [ toxic ] bug and a dead cricket would not cause death..... but what was the non toxic cleaner you used ? It may be non toxic for humans but could be harmful to animals, especially in an enclosed space.
 

Haxaurous

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":vmjyd6bm said:
Hi there, I'm soooo sorry that you lost your beardie ! My heart goes out to you . :( It could have been an unseen illness but the fact that it coincided with the tank cleaning is suspicious. I highly doubt it was a bad [ toxic ] bug and a dead cricket would not cause death..... but what was the non toxic cleaner you used ? It may be non toxic for humans but could be harmful to animals, especially in an enclosed space.
It is called "Method All Purpose natural surface cleaner," normally I use the Fluker's Super Scrub, but I was out of it and his tank was really in need of a cleaning. I used the other cleaner only on his tiles, and rinsed them off thoroughly with water. It has lavender fragrances, but I don't think lavender is toxic to beardies. This was one of my suspicions, but he still acted strange when I took him out of the tank. Thank you so much for your concern! It means a lot! :) (here is a link to the cleaner http://www.staples.com/Method-All-P...6EV1DDWaXSfS2VhELiWxRoCVVXw_wcB#/desc_content
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I guess you can't be certain of what happened, the cleaner could still have caused an allergic respiratory reaction but that's def. just a theory. Where was he while you were cleaning the tank , could he have gotten in to something ?
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
The fumes given off might have poisoned him.

I use only water or F10 (a special vetinary disinfectant that comes in as concentrate that you dilute prior to use (1:115 in water), this disinfectant is designed to be used in the presence of reptiles and other pets and nontoxic to them and humans .
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I am terribly sorry for the loss of your dragon, how devastating for it to have been so sudden. :cry:
I agree, it is a high probability of it being some off gasing of the fumes. I know that Method is earth friendly, but still may have emitted something. If there was any residue left, once the tank heated back up it can emit fumes that you may not be able to smell but would get to an animal.

Tracie
 

Haxaurous

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":11wott0v said:
I guess you can't be certain of what happened, the cleaner could still have caused an allergic respiratory reaction but that's def. just a theory. Where was he while you were cleaning the tank , could he have gotten in to something ?
He was being babysat by my mother while I was cleaning everything; right now, I do believe his death had something to do with the cleaner. Thank you for your response
 

Haxaurous

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":21b9ojr6 said:
Hello,

I am terribly sorry for the loss of your dragon, how devastating for it to have been so sudden. :cry:
I agree, it is a high probability of it being some off gasing of the fumes. I know that Method is earth friendly, but still may have emitted something. If there was any residue left, once the tank heated back up it can emit fumes that you may not be able to smell but would get to an animal.

Tracie
Thank you so much for your reply & concern, I also agree it had something to do with the cleaner. I have cleaned all the tiles and everything that was in his tank with mainly water and my Fluker's Super Scrub twice already. I am hoping to get another beardie soon, as I think it will help with my grief (and the fact that they're great pets). Do you think washing and re-washing everything will be safe enough for a new beardie? I am not using the same tank my old dragon was in, but using mostly the same furniture.
 

Haxaurous

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":ltn7ah92 said:
The fumes given off might have poisoned him.

I use only water or F10 (a special vetinary disinfectant that comes in as concentrate that you dilute prior to use (1:115 in water), this disinfectant is designed to be used in the presence of reptiles and other pets and nontoxic to them and humans .
Thank you for being so attentive to this post. As I mentioned, I've completely cleaned everything with water and my Fluker's Super Scrub. I am not using the same tank once I get another beardie (it's only been a week but I already miss having one around)... I also have spare tiles that I am going to use in replacement of the ones I sprayed with that Method cleaner. Is there anything you could recommend that could ensure safety to a new beardie? :)
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Haxaurous":20p4cr06 said:
kingofnobbys":20p4cr06 said:
The fumes given off might have poisoned him.

I use only water or F10 (a special vetinary disinfectant that comes in as concentrate that you dilute prior to use (1:115 in water), this disinfectant is designed to be used in the presence of reptiles and other pets and nontoxic to them and humans .
Thank you for being so attentive to this post. As I mentioned, I've completely cleaned everything with water and my Fluker's Super Scrub. I am not using the same tank once I get another beardie (it's only been a week but I already miss having one around)... I also have spare tiles that I am going to use in replacement of the ones I sprayed with that Method cleaner. Is there anything you could recommend that could ensure safety to a new beardie? :)
I don't know what the available of http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/F10D is in your country, but it came highly recommended to me by my reptile vet (he uses it in his surgery) and it's pretty much the bee's knees and most everyone who keeps reptiles here use it.

Other than that perhaps keeping the heat light on In the empty but open enclosure for a week or 2 prior to installing a new pet beardie in it to ensure any residue is completely outgased / and all volatiles in the stuff you used are gone. Assuming it was the cleaner which killed the dragon.

I'd also make the use bug sprays and surface sprays in and around your home strictly TABOO.
We're obsessive about ensuring our 2 beardies and 2 bluetongue skinks don't find any dead or dying roaches in our house when they are out for their daily walkabouts (can't guarantee bugs don't find their way into our place from the neighbours or stop them using surface sprays and bug sprays and their bugs finding their way into our house after being poisoned).
 

Haxaurous

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":1i1if3fz said:
Haxaurous":1i1if3fz said:
kingofnobbys":1i1if3fz said:
The fumes given off might have poisoned him.

I use only water or F10 (a special vetinary disinfectant that comes in as concentrate that you dilute prior to use (1:115 in water), this disinfectant is designed to be used in the presence of reptiles and other pets and nontoxic to them and humans .
Thank you for being so attentive to this post. As I mentioned, I've completely cleaned everything with water and my Fluker's Super Scrub. I am not using the same tank once I get another beardie (it's only been a week but I already miss having one around)... I also have spare tiles that I am going to use in replacement of the ones I sprayed with that Method cleaner. Is there anything you could recommend that could ensure safety to a new beardie? :)
I don't know what the available of http://www.vetnpetdirect.com.au/F10D is in your country, but it came highly recommended to me by my reptile vet (he uses it in his surgery) and it's pretty much the bee's knees and most everyone who keeps reptiles here use it.

Other than that perhaps keeping the heat light on In the empty but open enclosure for a week or 2 prior to installing a new pet beardie in it to ensure any residue is completely outgased / and all volatiles in the stuff you used are gone. Assuming it was the cleaner which killed the dragon.

I'd also make the use bug sprays and surface sprays in and around your home strictly TABOO.
We're obsessive about ensuring our 2 beardies and 2 bluetongue skinks don't find any dead or dying roaches in our house when they are out for their daily walkabouts (can't guarantee bugs don't find their way into our place from the neighbours or stop them using surface sprays and bug sprays and their bugs finding their way into our house after being poisoned).
Thank you, I think I can order that cleaner online, how much do you usually use? I'll contact my vet first and ask what she thinks, but I really appreciate the recommendation and I think I'll order it ASAP
I've already cleaned everything and left everything I sprayed with cleaner next to an open window so it airs out; it's been pretty hot/humid here lately so I hope that helps? I have left the tank completely open to air out for 4 days now, but I'll leave everything alone for another week or so.
I don't really let my beardies roam around without me right next to them (I have 2 large cats), so I doubt it was something he had eaten, unless he came across a ladybug or something from outside...
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
To clean the tank furniture you can just use mild soapy water, rinse with hot water and then pop anything that fits [ that isn't plastic ] into the oven for an hour at 250 F. The heat kills anything harmful and you don't have to worry about fumes. Red wine vinegar is also a potent cleaner, stronger than bleach and it's harmless. Just mix with hot water + a bit of mild soap , wash and then rinse with hot water.
 

Haxaurous

Member
Original Poster
AHBD":62vwhfa4 said:
To clean the tank furniture you can just use mild soapy water, rinse with hot water and then pop anything that fits [ that isn't plastic ] into the oven for an hour at 250 F. The heat kills anything harmful and you don't have to worry about fumes. Red wine vinegar is also a potent cleaner, stronger than bleach and it's harmless. Just mix with hot water + a bit of mild soap , wash and then rinse with hot water.
Thank you so much!
 
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