3 year old really Lethargic and not eating.

[AndehT]

Here's everything you will want to know...

Home - 4.5FT vivarium.

Light I have - http://www.petsathome.com/shop/en/pets/reptile/vivariums-and-accessories/vivarium-lighting/exo-terra-repti-glo-10-915cm-%28in-store-only%29

Temps -
95-100 Degrees Basking Temps (With laser Digital thermometer)
80-85 Average Ambient Temp

Floor - Lino.

He's currently not eating and hasn't been for about 1 month and a half.

He's normally fed on a mix of Hoppers(not dusted), Squash, The only greens he will eat is Kale.
(currently being force fed by the vets but doesn't seem to be wanting to eat at all when he's at home.

He's been to the vets this week, They took blood and X-rays, They came back to me telling me that he's a bit Anaemic, Now he's on medication and having to go back to the vets every 2 days for force feed...He's not getting any more lively and He's very Lethargic....

They checked for impaction too and that was fine and parasites.

I honestly thought it was brumation, But in the whole time I've had him he's never not eaten so I couldn't be sure.

I've been holding him tonight and I've just recently noticed when I'm touching his tail he starts to like twitch it and doesn't look very happy about me touching it, He's never does this before the last two days.

He's going back to the vets tomorrow for a force feed so I'll come back with an update..

I was just wondering if anyone else could have some input to what it might be? (the tail thing and such)

Thanks a lot in advance and sorry for the long read,

Andy & Lemon.

 

[AHBD]

Hi Andy, sorry that Lemon is having some trouble. Some of the most important info you left out....his length + weight. Can you post pics of him [ full body shot ] as well as his tank set up ? How are you taking the temps. ? Here's how to post pics:
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then hit XIMG

It may be that he's trying to brumate or at least go in to a sleepy phase. If that's the case he shouldn't be force fed. I would at least be VERY leery of doing it every 2 days. Twice a week at the most, I would not do so more than that. How long do they want to force feed ? Are they charging you for every session ? If so, they're making a lot on money from you. If he has a liver problem then he would need to eat regularly though.

He will either go back to sleep when they are done with force feeding or he will resume eating on his own, but a grown dragon doesn't need food every 2 days, especially if you're not sure if he's trying to brumate.

 

[AndehT]

I'll measure him tomorrow, He's currently sleeping right now and I'd rather not disturb him...

The temps are being taken via a digital thermometer.

He's being force fed twice a week sorry...I'm just in a bit of a stress at the moment with him and worded it wrong what i wanted to type. Sorry for the confusion.

They are charging me for every session yes, £10 a time...Not much to me as long as he will be ok :/

He seems to wiggle his tail when I'm touching him in his viv, Even if I just touch his back, could be be annoyed with my presence or something else?

They're keeping him on meds every 2 days (which i give him) and then they're feeding him 2 times a week...

I'm just wanting to get him back to what he was like before whatever is going on now as it's very worrying to me

 

[AndehT]

Just an update... He's doing this sort of weird wiggle thing about half way down his tail when I'm stroking him even on his back, starting to think he may be stressed or something is this a possibility And how can I make him less stressed? First time he's ever gave weird signs

 

[AHBD]

Poor guy, he's stressed because he's going through a traumatic experience....being force fed can be extremely stressful, especially going to a strange place[ the vets ] It may be that he thinks that whenever you touch him he may be getting ready to be taken for another frightening encounter.

Have you seen how they feed him, and could you do it yourself at home ?

 

[AndehT]

I've not seen how they're feeding him but I did see them give the first lot of medication and they pinned him down pretty much, but when I'm doing it he's very calm when doing it.

Is there any way I can call him down? Should I leave him alone more or handle him more? Any tips as I've not really had him be stressed before, does the tail wiggle thing sound stress related or something else?

 

[AndehT]

Here is the pictures of Lemon and his viv, Forgot to ask the vets his weight so I will ring them tomorrow and get a weight for you.

 

[AHBD]

Handsome boy, but he does look worn out. I was just rereading the thread and I didn't catch it before but you say that you weren't dusting his food ? Has he ever been given calcium or vitamins ? He may have a calcium deficiency, maybe a vit. def. as well. And I just wondered why they are feeding him rather than letting you feed him. Also, what type of meds. is he on ?

 

[AndehT]

He's currently on Marbocyl injectable(0.2ml) and Metacam(0.1ml) every other day for 3 weeks at least.

They've done two feeds and they're going to be doing another on Friday so they can show us how to do it...

He used to be fed hoppers dusted in calcium. I may of messed up but I'm sure I read long ago that if they're taking in greens then the dust isn't needed.

I'm not really sure but we've just got back from a feeding with the vets and it seems he's been sick?

 

[AHBD]

Oh no, the poor guy has vomited ? Sorry to hear that. The meds. he is on are an antibiotic and an anti-inflammatory . Did they tell you what they are giving those drugs for ? Always ask questions, in a respectful way, but you need to know just as if it were your child. Injections are not always tolerated, and 3 weeks worth are going to be very painful. The Metacam [ pain med. ] can cause upset stomach. Poor guy is pretty miserable. Was he this lethargic before the vet visits ?

And yes,he needed calcium with D3 all along, at least 2-3X a week. That may or may not be the cause of some or all of his problems.

 

[AndehT]

The meds are apparently for him being slightly Anaemic and possibly something else which I don't remember right now sorry as I've been that much it's hard to remember everything they've said but I will clear it all up tomorrow on the phone.

We will start dusting again, I feel really bad he's not been getting it all this time now but what should we do if he's not willing to eat anything?

The reason for the vet visits was down to him being lethargic and not eating for about a month.

 

[kyleena29]

Here is what I do to get mine his food. I mix baby food squash and chicken or turkey and oxbow herbivore. The oxbow your vet can provide you with some, there is a herbivore and carnivore version. Ideally you want both but you want to start out with just a little protein for now. If you get the carnivore version you can just omit the chicken/turkey. Mix with a little water till it's cake batter consistency. You can add a pinch of calcium with D3 and mix it up (3x week for calcium, 1x week vitamin on a day with no calcium). I bought those nipples you can buy for feeding kittens/puppies. Use a syringe with no needle, put the food in there and put the nipple on the end. I start out with putting a glob of food on the snout and let him lick it off. If he does not I open the side of his lip and place a little food in there. If he still won't eat I put a little pressure from the nipple into his teeth till he opens his mouth and tries to chew, that usually gets him going. It can take a while this way (maybe 20-30 min) but we do whatever we have to right? Try not to let him chew the nipple cause they can get holes real fast and we don't want them to accidently eat a piece of that. My beardie weighs around 340 grams so I feed him approximately 5mls 3x day. The food will also help keep him hydrated. Mine is 8 months so I feed him more often. You should buy a digital food scale to keep an eye on his weight.

 

[AndehT]

Here is what I do to get mine his food. I mix baby food squash and chicken or turkey and oxbow herbivore. The oxbow your vet can provide you with some, there is a herbivore and carnivore version. Ideally you want both but you want to start out with just a little protein for now. If you get the carnivore version you can just omit the chicken/turkey. Mix with a little water till it's cake batter consistency. You can add a pinch of calcium with D3 and mix it up (3x week for calcium, 1x week vitamin on a day with no calcium). I bought those nipples you can buy for feeding kittens/puppies. Use a syringe with no needle, put the food in there and put the nipple on the end. I start out with putting a glob of food on the snout and let him lick it off. If he does not I open the side of his lip and place a little food in there. If he still won't eat I put a little pressure from the nipple into his teeth till he opens his mouth and tries to chew, that usually gets him going. It can take a while this way (maybe 20-30 min) but we do whatever we have to right? Try not to let him chew the nipple cause they can get holes real fast and we don't want them to accidently eat a piece of that. My beardie weighs around 340 grams so I feed him approximately 5mls 3x day. The food will also help keep him hydrated. Mine is 8 months so I feed him more often. You should buy a digital food scale to keep an eye on his weight.

Ok thanks a lot for all the info you've provided, Will be talking to the vet tomorrow about all of this...

Any idea if this will be a life time thing or would he eventually start eating on his own again?

 

[kyleena29]

Really depends what's wrong with him but when he does get better he should go back to eating normally though it could take weeks or months.

 

[AHBD]

Sounds like a good plan on assist feeding you can do at home. Keep in mind that you can always experiment with a bit of juice added [ always sugar free , all natural ] or even a bit of raw, unpasteurized honey [ most beardies like it and it's good medicine for the entire G.I tract ] Try a few things to make ot tasty for him. And yes, watch he doesn't bite the nipple, especially dangerous if he accidentally swallows it ! If he'll eat from a syringe without it , then do it that way.

I really think he'll be much better off being fed at home, the trip to a strange place and being possibly roughly handled is very stressful . You can be very gentle feeding him, might not even need to move him from where he's resting....just gently smear/dribble some on his snout and see if he'll eat some. If that doesn't work, get a piece of cardboard from a cereal top , use it to wecge his mouth open [ it's good because it can't hurt him ] and then put the syringe in the side of his mouth and push it gently in.

You might consider quitting the meds. after 1 week, if the vet does not have an actual diagnosis they may do more harm than good.