3 Year Old Male - Dying or Brumation? - Vet vs. Owners

[AHBD]

Some of those things may help...I personally would not use colloidal silver but others may have a different opinion. Bee pollen + grape seed sound reasonable. Also, if your house is above 68 at night, no extra heat is needed. The undertank heater may dehydrate him. They are desert animals + need to cool off at night.

Don't blame yourself, all the things you gave him were things that are marketed for beardies....he is just having a reaction to something and/or possibly has an unseen hidden illness. You're a very caring owner, otherwise you wouldn't have spent so much time + money to help Fred.

 

[SDragon]

I agree with Sdragon,DO give him water orally with the syringe and go very easy on the liquid vitamins and be careful he doesn't choke. His illness is not caused by a vit. deficiency, and too much vitamins or anything can overtax him in his weak state. Bathing does not really hydrate them, water intake is through the mouth, not the vent.

Sdragon, go easy on OP....he is trying his best and doing everything that he can. Many people think that dragons get hydrated through their vent, that's been around for a long time.

It wasn't aimed as a criticism, I don't think the OP has been negligent in his care or how he has responded to the illness. But I felt it worth being clear that it's a myth (or at least has zero evidence and seems scientifically unlikely). The sooner it stops being peddled as fact the better.

I would get a temp gun as well, just to make sure.

Inclined to agre with AHBD regarding the supplements, I need to read up on the research on CS and see if i think it sounds reasonable (e.g would I accept this as suitably robust to be confident using it myself). The pollen seems reasonably harmless, don't know a lot about grape seed, I'd want to research it first.

 

[masmidow]

Thanks for that.

Would it be beneficial to turn off the red lamp as well and rely on the ambient ~72F heat? Want him to get restful rest.

 

[masmidow]

I've agreed with all comments above. Thanks.

You did clear up that, I am focused on truth for sure.

 

[SDragon]

Your call, some advocate ~80 nighttime ambient for weakened lizards. If it were me, I think I would probably favour letting him rest, but that is strictly opinion, nothing more than that.

 

[masmidow]

Well, that makes sense. I'm sure the Australian nights vary in temp.

 

[masmidow]

He's still with us. Taking deep breaths, typically after a violent thrashing. Then he settles down for a while. I got a lot of water by oral syringe this morning.

I've lined the whole terrarium with pillows and soft things, because sometimes when he randomly thrashes he would come up against the glass.

According to the vet, he doesn't have:

- impaction
- vitamin toxicity
- infection
- walnut shell toxicity (he doubted this)
- liver failure
- metabolic bone disease

Fred has had an x-ray and blood work.

White blood cell count is normal range.

X-Ray negated any sign of impaction. His bone density looks normal.

Vet suggests:

- inflammation
- stroke
- cancer

Yet, without the $1500 cat scan and the $800 spinal tap, we don't know anything for certain.

What is known seems positive, but that suggests other bad things. Like I said he's still with us. His violent thrashing indicates that he isn't weak. Just going to hydrate and pray. I believe that this is the best course of action.

I have him only on his heat mat. All lights are off. The house is ambient 72F. Don't know if adding the emitter would only dehydrate him.

Wondering if these spasms or convulsions are caused by some ionic imbalance. Maybe by keeping him on water he will get rid of any excess. On the other hand, it could be due to a lack of something. Not sure. His bearded dragon bites seem to cover all bases and even say that they can be used solely for his diet. If it's vitamin A toxicity, then I will restrict that. The vet isn't giving me anything confidently. No offer to bring in stool sample. I keep forgetting to ask.

Thoughts? Thank you.

 

[Esther19]

I am sorry you are both going through this. I would get some pedialite and dilute in equal parts with water and give him that. I am not sure that even if they figured out what was wrong they could fix it. I would just hold him and talk to him and try to keep him comfortable. Have you tried giving him stage 1 squash baby food?You could turkey or chicken baby food to it if he took the squash well. Can you make a slurry of his greens and strain it, then give with the syringe? That would give him nutrients and hydration both. I would turn off the mat and turn on the emitter. 80 overnight would be good..no more. Good luck. Let us know how he is doing.

 

[masmidow]

He's at the point where any kind of external contact or slight disturbance makes him convulse.

Impossible at the moment to get him water.

 

[SDragon]

Hey
So sorry he is this sick, whilst I'm a little surprised the vet didn't do a fecal, it doesn't sound like a oarasite issue (basee on mh limited knowledge).

I hate to say this, but if he is convulsing a lot, it might be worth talking with the vet about humane options.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Would you happen to have a copy of the blood test I could look over?
Poor guy, he isn't looking well, I am sorry about that.
How is he handling the oral fluids so far? If baths don't stress him out you can definitely soak him.
I somewhat disagree with the hydration factor there. I do think that they do derive some hydration through their skin/scales as well as their vents if they soak long enough. A lot of dragons do enjoy baths, too. Anyway, use the best method for him or a combination to help him out.
The x-rays did not reveal any impaction issue at all?
Could he have come into contact with anything toxic perhaps?

Tracie

 

[masmidow]

Fred appears to be making positive progress. I took the time to use a wet q tip to gently clear his eyes. His eyes had been closed for days. Now he can open them and has.

Instead of convulsions, which was the only thing he was doing, he appears to be regaining his walking capabilities.

I found a good technique to orally get water into him. I gently got some in the side of his lip. That caused him to begin licking, which allowed me to put a little water in his mouth. The water then caused him to lick again. So, with this reiterative technique I could get water into him without spasms.

He may make it through yet! Hopeful.

 

[masmidow]

He may have had an acute poisoning to something, which is now clearing perhaps. Time seems to be helping now.

Sorry, I wasn't given copies of records, but x-ray cleared him of impaction according to vet.

The blood cell range was normal.

Thanks again to all of you caring owners!

 

[AHBD]

That's good to hear ! I hope he continues to make progress, it at least looks like he may have a chance now.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is great news Fred seems to be slowly improving now!
What type of toxin do you think he could have come into contact with? I hope he continues to get better now.
I am happy he is taking his oral fluids too a bit easier for you also.

Keep us posted on him.
Tracie