2 really bad off rescues

[davidwatters]

so just randomly looking around craigslist i came across 2 beardies that were being rehomed after being found in bad shape elsewhere so i grabbed them to try to bring them back to good health. so i know most of the basics and have already got them both eating and drinking but the poo female has MBD pretty bad, the male is in better shape and can scoot around ok for the most part (to weak to lift his body but scoots).

the female is a bag of bones and her right front leg is pretty deformed but far worse than that her jaw is pretty far our of alignment so im syringe feeding her (chowed down also) and managed to get a cricket chewed up. she can move around her tank atleast a little and after some food was trying alot more to be active.

the male seems to be in decent shape other than very low body weight and cant lift his body yet. hes already bobbing and bearding at the female lol.

their on high doses of calcium and uvb now and hopefully recovery strength. i know the deformities are permanent but any chance she will gain use of her jaw again? also she has trouble with her tounge it seems. kinda like chocking on it if shes laying a certain way.

 

[AHBD]

So nice of you to take them in ! They are thin but not emaciated and I'm glad to see that the MBD is not severly deformed either of them. They need good food with lots of water for hydration added to the smoothies you make , lots of good uvb so they can absorb the calcium, and lots of TLC. Only time will tell how much they can recover, just be patient and be sure they have good strong uvb like Reptisun 10.0 t5 fixtures or Arcadia D3 12 %.

Be sure to keep them separate ! Even a sickly male will try to mate if he becomes more mobile , and just his presence can stress the female. Be careful about soaking them , they get chilled very easily , esp. when they're weak so only a short + very warm soak every other day [ if they are dirty + need it ] and then pat them dry + return them to the warm spot in the tank.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor things, but at least you were able to take them both in! I agree, overall they don't look
too bad. Hopefully they will improve & be able to get around pretty normally. Their deformities
will stay unfortunately but they can still have a nice quality of life with you though. If they are
able to eat & move around they will be happy with their UVB light & heating.
I am sure they love their smoothies right now also!
Good luck with them & be sure to let us know how they are both progressing.

Tracie

 

[EllenD]

Thank you for taking them in, and honestly they don't look too badly, though the MBD and calcium deficiencies are bad if they cannot move. So as already mentioned, they each need a very strong T5 UVB tube/fixture with a reflector, either the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO or the Arcadia 12% T5, and then obviously a proper diet and calcium/multivitamin supplementation daily. You will probably want to also order either Oxbow Critical Care or Emerald Critical Care to syringe feed them, as they need all of the protein, fat, calories, vitamins, etc. that they would normally be getting in live insects and fresh greens/veggies.

The very first thing you need to do immediately is separate them, as the main reason that the femail is in such bad shape in the first place is because they've been housed together and she has been totally dominated 24/7 by the male. And as bad as their environments have been, the male has taken advantage of any and all good UVB spots, temperature spots, food, etc. and the female has been and is still under tremendous stress all the time, and will not likely start to recover much until she is in her own tank, with her own UVB tube and basking bulb, her own basking spot/platform, and completely out of sight of the male. Also, as already mentioned, the male will constantly be trying to breed her, literally to death. The "head-bobbing" is not a good thing for the female, as it's totally stressing her out. So please, get the male out of that tank, set up a temporary plastic tub for him if you have to, but they cannot stay together any longer.

 

[davidwatters]

Don’t worry they were separated right after the bath. The picture is when I got them home. They separate and she’s a lot more active now after the smoothies, he’s eating on his own and live insects now just very little strength and dragging himself a round.

The female honestly looks much worse in person, has very little use of her front legs as their all twisted and she tries her hardest to chew super worms but doesn’t have a god point in her mouth that meets enough to chew. They spent a few hours outside today in the Florida sun and loved that.

The guy I got them from said he seen a post on Craigslist for them and when he got them they were in a tank with a 60 watt household light on top of a 50 gallon tank with a mesh cover and being fed just meal worms. He took them but didn’t have time to help them and reposted them and after a $40 fee I have them lol.

 

[AHBD]

That's great, so they are separate and you have them out in the sun for a while, excellent treatment for a beardie with MBD. Superworms will be too hard for her unless freshly shed but if you have a food processer that can be just for the reptiles you can add bugs to a smoothie along with any or all of these greens + veggies....turnip + mustard greens, collards, kale [ no spinach by the way ] endive,dandelion, green bean, squash, strawberries + blueberries. Ad a pinch of calcium powder every feeding and a pinch of bee pollen every feeding. This should give them lots of nutrients and for now the sun will benefit them by providing D3 and strengthening their bones.

 

[EllenD]

I wanted to say the same thing immediately as AHBD, you cannot feed the female any Superworms, unless you put them in a blender and make a smoothie out of them. She can't handle them, they will likely either choke her or impact her badly, as usually when they have severe MBD like she does, one of the main issues that they have is weakness in their back-ends, including problems pushing-out bowel movements. So Superworms, mealworms, or anything else with a hard shell or exoskeleton is a no-no, at least right now.

The absolute best live feeder insect you could be feeding her right now are size Large BSFL/Phoenix Worms. They are completely soft-bodied and full of water to help keep her hydrated, they can't impact her and will be much easier for her to pass, they contain a ton of non purine-based protein that will be easier on her kidneys, and they contain the highest natural Calcium content of any live insect feeder, which is a must to help with the MBD, as just like with people, any vitamins, minerals, herbs, etc. that you can take-in from food in it's natural form is better absorbed by the body than if they get it all from a synthetic powder or pill. I have been feeding size Large BSFL exclusively as my main staple feeder for about 10 years to all of my Dragons, including my year and 4 month old male, Nix, who I took-in as a rescue when he was 8 months old, from a family who meant very well and loved him, but did not get any good advice from Petco or from an Exotics vet they took him to, and he NEVER had any UVB light at all until a week before I picked him up (I had been talking to his owner through text and email for about a month before they decided that they couldn't afford to get him the help that he needed, though they did go right out and buy him a UVB tube and fixture a week before I picked him up).

You can cheaply order size Large BSFL from either www.dubiaroaches.com or from www.symtonbsf.com in bulk. I usually use www.dubiaroaches.com as they are the cheapest place I've found, and I've never had any issues. Fast shipping, I get only size Large in my orders, no dead worms, etc. I pay about $25 for 1,000 size large shipped, and obviously you can order in smaller quantities, by the hundred I believe, and you'll get them in 2 days. They last for about a month and a half to two months at room-temperature (you can't refrigerate them as it will kill them), and if you have access to a place that is cooler but not cold, like a basement or a garage, down to about 45 degrees is fine, then they'll last a lot longer. I keep mine in a big plastic tub in my basement and/or garage that can get down to about 45 degrees, which puts them to sleep, but won't kill them. Then you just get the ones you need in a smaller container, bring them inside and run them under luke-warm water to get them moving, dust them, and feed them. You always feed the darkest colored BSFL first because they are the closest to turning, and they contain the highest Calcium content. And you can always feed size LARGE because they are soft-bodied, even babies can handle the size Large BSFL, the smalls and mediums are pointless. They are exactly what she needs to start her recovery.

 

[davidwatters]

ok 1000 ordered and on the way, these 2 are coming back fast im pretty surprised ill have to get some new pictures up soon.

 

[AHBD]

They are doing better already ? Wow, great news ! And Ellen linked you to the best deal you can get on bsfl....I had seen her mention the company before but forgot about it, so good to know.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is really great news! I am anxious to see pictures when you get a chance.
Hopefully they will continue to improve. I am sure they will love the larvae you ordered
for them, so they can eat better.
Bless them, they have definitely been through it. Keep us posted on them both.

Tracie

 

[davidwatters]

The 2 babies I have love the larva the rescued female tries her hardest but can't get them down her throat, she tries to chew but her mouth is too deformed to keep them in and they fall back out. The rescued male ears them fine but have noticed he is pooping them out whole, is that normal? The female I'm still blending them up and syringe feeding her.

 

[EllenD]

Yes, just blend them up and syringe them to her, you don't want her to choke, which is what is going to happen. Hopefully as she takes in the UVB light and gets more and more nutrition, she'll become stronger and eventually be able to eat soft-bodied worms.

No, it's not normal for any insects to pass whole in his bowel movements, that means he's not digesting them and is getting no nutrition from them, and usually this is due to way too low a Basking Spot Surface Temperature...Do you have either a Temperature Gun or a Digital Probe Thermometer? You absolute must have one or the other, any pet store will have a Digital Thermometer with a Probe on a Wire for about $10. You must get one, as both of their Basking Spot Surface Temperatures must be between 100-105 degrees F, with any opposite Cool Side Air/Ambient Temperature between 75-80 degrees F so they can cool down at all times. Also, both the UVB light and the bright-white colored Basking Light must be on every single day for at least 13-14 hours.

It's also possible that they aren't getting adequate UVB light, which is very, very bad because not only can they not absorb any nutrition, but they have severe MBD and they will never absorb any Calcium without proper UVB lighting and proper Temperatures.

 

[davidwatters]

They both have zoomed 100 watt basking bulbs and reptisun 10 t8 bulbs. Temps are right were they need to be but I notice neither one really want to bask they stay about in the middle were temps are about 80-90. Lights are on a timer for 14 hours a day. So what can I do to get them basking better? I thought about raising the temps just a bit to bring the middle up higher but don't want to cook them either.

 

[davidwatters]

so far it doesnt seem like the larva are going to work with my dragons. both rescues pass them whole but only them, if they eat anything else they have normal BMs. i gave alot of the larva to my healthy 4 year old and he had a very very runny mess and majority of the bugs were whole and hes back to normal after going back to supers. is this normal for a transition?

 

[AHBD]

Some dragons do seem to pass them through like that, I don't know why for sure [ maybe they eat them without chewing but you'd think the digestive enzymes would kill them ?? ] So yes, use a different feeder insect. Are either of the dragons eating smoothies ?