~2 month old beardie all the sudden lethargic.

[Firevine]

Freaking out a bit here. Can't sleep, so I figured I'd use this time to ask you guys. I posted some of this info in the brumation thread, but I am pretty certain Samson is too young for brumation.

Not exactly sure how old Samson is, since I got him from PetSmart. We've had him less than a month, but he's been happy and active, perky, curious, a voracious eater, and a little chubber all this time. Now, seriously, within the past day and a half, he's dropped weight, and is being sluggish. He ate nearly all the crickets I got him two days ago, and snapped up a straggler yesterday while I was watching him, but the ones my girlfriend got today, he didn't touch. They all just crawled out from under the newspaper and greenery when I turned the lights out.

He'll perk up a bit when I mist the enclosure, or when I'd drip some water on him, so I gave him a bath. He got pretty active then. Eyes wide open, pawing at the sides of the critter cage I had him in to keep an eye on him, but then went back to being mopey, and didn't have any interest in the salad that my iguana and BTS absolutely destroyed, nor for the crickets.

The enclosure is 85-95 all day. Humidity is ~65-70% I have been misting it a few times a day since the dry winter air is throwing it all out of whack. I could stand to give him something to climb on to get closer to the UVB, but he's no more than 10 inches from it.

Right now, I have him in that critter cage, on top of my BTS's light canopy, to get some ambient heat from underneath. Don't want him to get nibbled on by those crickets. I have the top off so it won't get too hot due to greenhouse effect.

I tucked him away in a cloth, under his hide, in case he just wanted to get away from the light for a bit, but after a few minutes, he came out and plopped down on the food dish, and zonked right back out.

Like I said, this is sudden onset. He was normal ol' Samson even when I went to work yesterday morning. His coloration hasn't changed at all. He's still got his beautiful bright colors. He did get a section of his tail that lightened up a bit, and looked like he might be shedding though. My Ig and BTS get grumpy when its shedding time, but never a reaction like this. Since then, that minor change in coloration has gone back to normal.

Going to be pretty upset if he doesn't make it.

It's been a few, so I just went to check on him again. It's 87F in the critter keeper, and he was on all fours haunched up till I picked him up. He's still grabbing at any hand hold he can get to feel secure, like normal. Didn't open his eyes though.

Blech.

Thanks in advance for any help!

 

[nikkiperry2580]

Hello,
I'm sorry to hear about your sluggish beardie. You were right, it's too young to brumate, however, they do tend to slow down and don't eat quite as much during the colder months. One thing you can do it raise the temps for the basking area, should be around 105-108 and the cooler side should be closer to 80-85.
What size tank/vivarium do you have him in?
Are you using Calcium and Vitamin's to dust his food? They need to calcium, with out this they can have seizures and poss. die. What type of UVB lighting are you using? Repti sun is much better than the repti glo. www.petmountain.com carries them at a much better price.
How often is he pooing? How long has it been since he pooped?
What type of lining/substrate do you have on the bottom of the cage? If it's able to be eaten, it can cause a blockage.
If your concerned about him losing weight, try baby food. Beef or chicken, just put a drop on his nose and let him eat it off. Squash, greens, bananas, they're all good. You can use a syringe (without the needle) or a dropper. If he likes this, you can mix in the calcium and vitamins in the baby food and feed him.
How long have you had him? It usually takes a week or so for them to calm down and get use to the change.
I hope this helps. Write back as soon as possible and maybe we can figure out what's going on with this little guy.
Nikki

 

[Grogshla]

i agree with what is said above.
get those temps right up and make sure that your bearded dragon is within 8-10inches of your uvb tube otherwise he wont be getting any benefit. Also remember that uvb rays don't travel through glass so if your enclosure doesnt not have a mesh top you will need to mount the tube inside the enclosure.

also don't mist him that much mate. Only once every 2 days.

Give him a nice warm bath in water that only reaches to his shoulders. Leave him in there for 20 mins. Keep your eyes on him at all times. splash a bit of water on his back and a few drops on his nose so he can drink.

be sure to dust his crickets with calcium when feeding. 3 times a week you should dust a feeding of crickets with vitamin powder.

 

[Firevine]

Nikki: Since he's a tiny dude, I have him in a 29 gallon at the moment. I do use some vitamins. I got a mens multi due to very low phosphorous, and some calcium, and crushed those up into a fine powder and I sprinkle that on all the kids food a couple times a week. Substrate is newspaper, with a large chunk of sandstone for him to feel "at home". Couldn't tell you last time he pooped. They're tiny, and I'm always at work. I've had him almost a month actually, so he shouldn't be stressed from a change of habitat.

As an update, before work this morning, I grabbed a flower pot, and two pieces of slate I was using before, and made a basking spot, and a little ramp. After I placed him on it, he perked up a bit, looked around, then hopped off and zonked out again. He did this a few times before I left for work, and once just now.

Really worried about him, so I'm going to go make my own baby food and see if he'll take it.

 

[Grogshla]

please post some pictures of your enclosure and we can help much better.

Buy yourself some repti-vite and repti-cal for dusting your crickets. It is a good calcium and vitamin powder for reptiles not humans.

Be sure to check your temps and uvb and match them to what has been said in the previous posts.

Be sure to remove any crickets that he doesn't eat at night before he goes to sleep. They can bite and crawl all over him when he is sleeping and he wont even know. During the day you can leave a few in there, they usually hide and get eaten later when the dragon wants to eat.

 

[nikkiperry2580]

I think it would be safer if you got the vitamin and calcium for pets instead of for human consumption. I'm not too sure about it being harmful for the beardies. How is the feeding going? Did you make some mushy food yet? If I were you I'd stop misting the cage, your humidity should only be around 20 percent or so. Too much can cause respiratory issues. All you need to be misting is his face really, so he can lick the moisture off for a drink. I hope these minor changes will help your little guy perk up soon. Remember, this is the time of the year when they will become more sluggish and they will lower their metabolism so they're not as interested in eating. I'd love to see some pics of your enclosure and of your beardie. Please keep us posted!
Nikki

 

[Firevine]

Hmm, I saw the suggestion of using normal vitamins on anapsid.org.

He could just be mopey because the weather has been absolutely bizarre here. It was 60 yesterday, and its supposed to snow tomorrow. Georgia winters make no sense. I got him to take a bit of the veggie puree today, but not much. He pooped a couple times too, but it wasn't much, and only the white part. I got a basking spot up to 105 using some creative measures, but he managed to escape that too. I used a Rubbermaid shoebox container, that flowerpot, and a black T-shirt. After about 20 minutes, he plopped his butt out, acted more like himself for a while, and then got snoozy again. He's definitely improved since he freaked me out. I'll get some pics up of the enclosure after work tomorrow.

 

[greathouseFarm]

Hey Blech,

Well as everyone already pointed out getting his basking zone up to 105 - 110 is imparative. He need those high temps to digest food (basically melt it down) This could very well be a case of impaction. Because impaction can kill babies very quickly I would get a dropper and try to get at least 2 good drops of Olive Oil in his mouth right away. Than give him very warm baths until he poops. This is all assuming he did not poop today.

Secondly the humidity levels are extremely high and should not be over 40% inside his tank. This is probably going to correct itself after you get the heat levels back up but that is where is should be. If you have a water dish in his tank take it out and when you mist him do it outside the tank. He could have contracted a respiratory infection as well.

As far as the using crushed vitamins it can be done but you would want to use powder forms not crush them yourself. And it would be pretty hard to get the exact dosages taking into account how they stick to the food. Powdered supplements that are already formulated for your pet are cheap so you might as well error on the side of caution.

Please let us know how he is doing and if you have any of these things seem to be the culprit?

Oh yeah beardies can not feel heat on their tummies so if they are getting burnt they won't move. So no under heat should be used. Rocks, mats or as you mentioned using your BTS light from below.

Hope this helps! Keep us updated.

 

[nikkiperry2580]

I'm glad to hear he's perked up abit! That's awesome! I understand about the weather as I live in Ga. as well. Does he still have the hard spot on his belly after pooping? I agree with the above advise of giving a drop or two of olive oil, that will help him go, as well as applesauce and warm baths. Looks like your getting things in order and will have this problem solved soon. I would def. take him to the vet if the hard spot on his abdomen is still there after the holidays. Gotta get ready for my daughter's 6th birthday party today! Gotta love those Christmas Eve babies,lol. I can def. say "She was the BEST CHRISTMAS PRESENT E-V-E-R !" lol. Hope you and your little guy have a Merry Christmas!
Nikki

 

[Firevine]

I appreciate everyones help, but I regret to say, Samson didn't make it. I really don't understand. He wasn't impacted that I can tell. He had been eating tons, and pooping regularly. (Found it all in the greenery) This was very sudden onset.

I've called my normal vet, and left a message asking if they want to do an autopsy on him, to hopefully prevent a similar case in the future.

My girlfriend has tried to assure me that I did everything I could, and it's not my fault, but I can't help but be upset about it. This guy was an absolute treasure.

I think I am going to have the air tested in this apartment as well. The Iguana and the BTS have shown no ill effects, but plants don't seem to do too well. A cactus my mom gave me was happy and healthy when I brought it home, then all the sudden began rotting. I don't know if it would make me feel better or worse if it were something in the air that caused this.

Thanks again, everyone. I do appreciate the assistance. I may have only had the little guy a month, but he was wonderful, and I will miss him.

 

[AHBD]

Oh, I'm truly very sorry that your little guy didn't make it ! You certainly tried the best you knew....very sorry for your loss.

 

[nikkiperry2580]

I am so sorry for your loss. I know your heart is broken, but don't give up on the beardies. There's no telling what could have caused samson to pass, could have been born with a health issue and just gradually go worse. Could have been parasites, that he could have picked up at the pet store, etc.
I do however think that now you know more about them you would be a great owner. That old saying "When you know better, you do better." may apply here. I was in the same boat as you when I got my 2 beardies. I listened to the pet store clerk and was totally on the wrong track until I found this site. So don't give up my friend, give yourself some grieving time and then try again.
Again, I'm sorry for your loss. I wish you and yours a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!
Nikki