New Beardie, need some help

[0791]

I was at Petsmart getting things for my other bearded dragon (Stinker) today, and on the way out I decided to look at the baby bearded dragons like I always do. I noticed one that immediately caught my attention and stole my heart. I saw a sickly bearded dragon that I just knew I had to try to help. The poor baby was laying flat on the carpet away from all the other beardies and had their eyes closed. I just recently lost my 9 year old beardie Tinkey and this baby in the pet store reminded me of Tinkey whenever he was sick. I knew if I didn't get the baby or complained to the store that they just let a sick beardie lay on display with no attention they would probably do something unspeakable that most of those chain pet stores do. I am completely disgusted with the level of neglect that the worker displayed while getting the little one for me, it was more than obvious they weren't doing well at all. I ended up getting them but now I am struggling with their care and would appreciate any advice given.

- is around 6 inches (possibly 2 months?)
- lethargic
- does not react to stimuli
- will not open eyes often, has kept them shut a majority of today
- seems very malnourished and somewhat dehydrated.
- is abnormally opening mouth every so often, I am concerned for possible respiratory issues (?(didn't notice any noise while mouth is open/have not seen mucus around nose/mouth - is so small it's hard to tell))
- not eating (not sure if this is due to not opening eyes)
- very stressed (stress pattern on belly and neck)
- seems to perk up in heat/UVB
- licked a small portion of critical care mixed with some calcium powder/water from mouth

Any help is appreciated, I just want a different outcome from what I had with my Tinkey. I couldn't help Tinkey towards the end, but I really want to try to make it different for this little buddy. Thank you so much.

Currently he is in a 40 gallon tank
T5 10.0 34W UVB tube lighting
150W Basking bulb
Drop thermometers:
Cool side 76F / 38 humidity
Hot side 95F / 29 humidity

 

[Hazel_Basil10]

He is pretty skinny. How dehydrated is he?(TIP: If you pinch the loose skin on your beardie and it goes back very slow then he is dehydrated) I would do a visit just on case if he has an RI but in the last photo he looks very happy.

 

[KarrieRee]

I was at Petsmart getting things for my other bearded dragon (Stinker) today, and on the way out I decided to look at the baby bearded dragons like I always do. I noticed one that immediately caught my attention and stole my heart. I saw a sickly bearded dragon that I just knew I had to try to help. The poor baby was laying flat on the carpet away from all the other beardies and had their eyes closed. I just recently lost my 9 year old beardie Tinkey and this baby in the pet store reminded me of Tinkey whenever he was sick. I knew if I didn't get the baby or complained to the store that they just let a sick beardie lay on display with no attention they would probably do something unspeakable that most of those chain pet stores do. I am completely disgusted with the level of neglect that the worker displayed while getting the little one for me, it was more than obvious they weren't doing well at all. I ended up getting them but now I am struggling with their care and would appreciate any advice given.

- is around 6 inches (possibly 2 months?)
- lethargic
- does not react to stimuli
- will not open eyes often, has kept them shut a majority of today
- seems very malnourished and somewhat dehydrated.
- is abnormally opening mouth every so often, I am concerned for possible respiratory issues (?(didn't notice any noise while mouth is open/have not seen mucus around nose/mouth - is so small it's hard to tell))
- not eating (not sure if this is due to not opening eyes)
- very stressed (stress pattern on belly and neck)
- seems to perk up in heat/UVB
- licked a small portion of critical care mixed with some calcium powder/water from mouth

Any help is appreciated, I just want a different outcome from what I had with my Tinkey. I couldn't help Tinkey towards the end, but I really want to try to make it different for this little buddy. Thank you so much.

Currently he is in a 40 gallon tank
T5 10.0 34W UVB tube lighting
150W Basking bulb
Drop thermometers:
Cool side 76F / 38 humidity
Hot side 95F / 29 humidity

Please increase the surface basking temps to 105-110 and please use a digital probe thermometer- w/ him not eating it could be relocation stress but w/ good temps and basking temps hopefully he will start eating something- even a little is better than none- also I would get the cool side up to 80's-
I would like ahbd to help here
@AHBD

 

[AHBD]

He's dehydrated like was mentioned but don't pinch such a tiny baby , just offer water dripped very slowly on his snout. It's good that you got him to eat a tiny amount of food, keep that up. Offer very small, slow moving insects., if you use crickets disable them so they are very slow. The hot side temperature is fine at 100-105 tops, cool side 75-80. Hopefully he doesn't have atadenovirus and will respond to proper care . It's nice that you're trying to help this baby, I hope it works out. Keep updating.

 

[0791]

He is pretty skinny. How dehydrated is he?(TIP: If you pinch the loose skin on your beardie and it goes back very slow then he is dehydrated) I would do a visit just on case if he has an RI but in the last photo he looks very happy.

Please increase the surface basking temps to 105-110 and please use a digital probe thermometer- w/ him not eating it could be relocation stress but w/ good temps and basking temps hopefully he will start eating something- even a little is better than none- also I would get the cool side up to 80's-
I would like ahbd to help here
@AHBD[/USER
[/QUOTE]

I can't get a good pinch on him since he's so tiny and fragile, but he might not be as dehydrated after he ate some of the watered critical care.

I do have the digital probe thermometers, I don't think I clarified that 100% though so I apologize. I moved his probe near his surface basking area and it's 111F. (I kept the probes more so towards bottom of the tank, is it better to keep them near basking area? Sorry - I recently upgraded to them!)

 

[AHBD]

If it's reading 111 near the bottom it's prob. going to be too hot at the top of the basking area. Make sure it's not too hot for him to bask. Keep offering dripped water on his nose a few times a day, along with the C.Care formula.

 

[0791]

Any tips on him not opening his eyes? Is that a symptom of ADV? I can't seem to get him to open his eyes for very long, probably the longest I've seen them open is about 1 minute. I don't think I can feed him insects since he won't open his eyes to look at them even. I'm worried too, he keeps trying to move without opening his eyes. He launched himself forward earlier and you could tell he had no idea where he was going. I can't really get them to open no matter what I do, it just seems random whenever he does decide to open them.

He seems to hold himself up in his basking area which is a great sign to me, when I try to take him out he seems to go sort of limp.

I did some reading on ADV as well, do they "stargaze" constantly or is it more so on and off? He seems to not really hold his head back like the examples I've seen, although the other symptoms line up such as not eating/lethargy. I did read that the "stargaze" was more of a severe symptom though.

If he potentially has this it upsets me* that they had him housed with a few other babies.
Worries me as well because I have another beardie that's 10 months currently that I don't want it to spread to, luckily it seems not so bad to contain as long as there is no cross-contamination or direct contact.

 

[KarrieRee]

I can't get a good pinch on him since he's so tiny and fragile, but he might not be as dehydrated after he ate some of the watered critical care.

I do have the digital probe thermometers, I don't think I clarified that 100% though so I apologize. I moved his probe near his surface basking area and it's 111F. (I kept the probes more so towards bottom of the tank, is it better to keep them near basking area? Sorry - I recently upgraded to them!)

Set the probe on top where he sits for basking if it's over 110 either switch the decor out or lower your wattage of bulb- but you do want good temps of 105-110- you can place the probe on the side of the tank you don't need to leave it there-- where is the uvb? In the tank or top of screen? Your screen is going to determine where it goes- is there any stuff on his eyes? Shed? Watery? Your basking bulb is a good clear solid bright white bulb? Daytime bulbs are no good they have a coating on them that is not good effects how they see- coating is neoydium- try some regular saline on his eyes see if that helps
@Drache613

 

[0791]

Set the probe on top where he sits for basking if it's over 110 either switch the decor out or lower your wattage of bulb- but you do want good temps of 105-110- you can place the probe on the side of the tank you don't need to leave it there-- where is the uvb? In the tank or top of screen? Your screen is going to determine where it goes- is there any stuff on his eyes? Shed? Watery? Your basking bulb is a good clear solid bright white bulb? Daytime bulbs are no good they have a coating on them that is not good effects how they see- coating is neoydium- try some regular saline on his eyes see if that helps
@Drache613

His eyes seem clear of shed or any other foreign debris, they don't seem watery to me either.

These are the bulbs that I am currently using for both of my beardies -

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Repti-Basking-Replacement/dp/B07SLDF7F1/ref=sr_1_15?crid=1CJS0FKPXMCLK&keywords=basking+bulb+bearded+dragon&qid=1650338699&sprefix=basking+bulb+bearded+dragon%2Caps%2C65&sr=8-15

I just got the last UVB tube yesterday and tested them today. I still have yet to mount them on the inside, they are currently just sitting on the mesh top for now. These are the tank screens that I use -

https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Regular-Gallon-Screen/dp/B00LH1YM7I/ref=sr_1_4?crid=29KGIWVZ0LKCP&keywords=40+gallon+tank+top+metal&qid=1650339272&sprefix=40+gallon+tank+top+metal%2Caps%2C75&sr=8-4

He pooped last night, seemed to be normal. Got some more water in him today + critical care. I noticed that whenever his UVB lights were shut off he seemed to open his eyes way more than vs them being on. He seemed to be more active as well with them shut off, most I've ever seen him move. I saw a website say to give them a break from the UVB for 2-4 days, would you guys recommend this as well? His eyes still aren't opening like normal but at least it's an improvement.

 

[KarrieRee]

His eyes seem clear of shed or any other foreign debris, they don't seem watery to me either.

These are the bulbs that I am currently using for both of my beardies -

https://www.amazon.com/Zoo-Med-Repti-Basking-Replacement/dp/B07SLDF7F1/ref=sr_1_15?crid=1CJS0FKPXMCLK&keywords=basking+bulb+bearded+dragon&qid=1650338699&sprefix=basking+bulb+bearded+dragon%2Caps%2C65&sr=8-15

I just got the last UVB tube yesterday and tested them today. I still have yet to mount them on the inside, they are currently just sitting on the mesh top for now. These are the tank screens that I use -

https://www.amazon.com/Exo-Terra-Regular-Gallon-Screen/dp/B00LH1YM7I/ref=sr_1_4?crid=29KGIWVZ0LKCP&keywords=40+gallon+tank+top+metal&qid=1650339272&sprefix=40+gallon+tank+top+metal%2Caps%2C75&sr=8-4

He pooped last night, seemed to be normal. Got some more water in him today + critical care. I noticed that whenever his UVB lights were shut off he seemed to open his eyes way more than vs them being on. He seemed to be more active as well with them shut off, most I've ever seen him move. I saw a website say to give them a break from the UVB for 2-4 days, would you guys recommend this as well? His eyes still aren't opening like normal but at least it's an improvement.

I have never heard of the uvb recommending them to be shut off like that - reptisun is considered to be one of the safe lights- and no I don't recommend they be shut off for 2-4 days- I need some others to look at your post about this I can't really see the screen + please post a pic of it
@CooperDragon
@Claudiusx

 

[CooperDragon]

That's a pretty standard screen top, similar to what I've used for testing. It will block a bit of light/heat so your T5 should be best at around 10-12'' shining through it. The basking light should still be set based on surface temp readings. I've used the Repti Basking Spot lamps and found that they do produce a good amount of heat but tend to burn out quickly and have a fairly narrow beam. Recently I've been using BR40 125w Incandescent bulbs from Ace Hardware and they work pretty well. There are a lot of good options worth trying out though. Look for bulbs with a wide beam like BR40, BR30, PAR38 either halogen or incandescent. As long as they get surface temps up to a reasonable reading and produce a nice wide beam with bright light, they should work.

As far as turning the UVB light off, I don't think it would cause much issue to try it for a couple of days. If he is responding well to have it turned off, then you might try moving the light toward one side of the enclosure or toward the front or back. That will produce some areas with less intense UVB exposure. Observe to see if he starts moving to those areas more often which may indicate he is avoiding the light for some reason. If he does, then there may be something wrong with the bulb/fixture or perhaps he would prefer something else for UVB. Try some changes out one at a time and see how he reacts to each.

 

[0791]

I am very concerned for adeno now. He was doing extremely well the past two days with more and more signs of recovery. He started to want to eat, was opening his eyes more often, and was moving around by himself/exploring. But randomly today he seems to have no balance/head tilt and suddenly does not want to move. I went to check on him and I thought he was dead because he was unresponsive and his head was tilted back abnormally. I immediately moved him to his basking area and he moved but his head was still flipped back. I tried giving him some critical care/water and it helped somewhat but not enough. He is trying to move around but he has no sense of balance and erratically launches himself. He cannot seem to hold his head up. Does anyone know what I can do or if I can do anything at all???

 

[Hazel_Basil10]

You could try to take him to the vet as soon as possible before it's too late. Something is definitely wrong

 

[KarrieRee]

I am very concerned for adeno now. He was doing extremely well the past two days with more and more signs of recovery. He started to want to eat, was opening his eyes more often, and was moving around by himself/exploring. But randomly today he seems to have no balance/head tilt and suddenly does not want to move. I went to check on him and I thought he was dead because he was unresponsive and his head was tilted back abnormally. I immediately moved him to his basking area and he moved but his head was still flipped back. I tried giving him some critical care/water and it helped somewhat but not enough. He is trying to move around but he has no sense of balance and erratically launches himself. He cannot seem to hold his head up. Does anyone know what I can do or if I can do anything at all???

He does not look good- you can have him tested for adeno I think drache 613 would need to help here-
@Drache613

 

[0791]

I will try to get a vet appointment in as soon as I can. I am just worried if he will make it to a vet appointment or if he can hold on until one. The closest reptile vet to me is an hour drive and they were busy (2 day wait) whenever I went with my Tinkey not too long ago. I don’t know what I can do in the meantime