Slevin Update! He has Coccidia! And we have some questions.

Well, we just got back from out vet visit and he has coccidia. So it's back to the de-wormer for him, sadly. One problem, though, is that our vet didn't seem completely knowledgeable about brumation. Granted, I'm sure she didn't want to make a solid decision one way or the other, brumation being as mysterious as it is. Either way the fecal read coccidia so that could be the cause of him acting the way he is or he's in brumation WITH coccidia, and I don't really like the latter.

And, I think I know how he got the coccidia. We got a batch of emergency crickets from our local Petsmart a little while ago and we noticed after a while of having them that an abundance of these strange little flies came with them. They even had eggs and stuff in the end of one of the cricket tubes in our cage. That's what I think it was, a bad batch of crickets. Any thoughts?

For those who don't know we have 5 weeks worth of de-worming stuff to give him so we'll be updating on this new situation. As usual he still looks great but he's been under his hides since he pooped on Sunday. Oh yes, this was the other thing. Our vet recommended adding bearded dragon food pellets in with his diet. Slevin isn't typically the type of creature that eats anything that isn't moving. We trick him with his salads by picking it up and dropping it in his dish. And he figures that out real quick.

Well that's our update for now, he took the first shot of his meds like a champ. He probably thought it was baby food cause that's how we've been giving it to him lol!

*Edit* Should we start feeding him crickets and salad again as normal or no? We still don't know if it's brumation but I don't want to starve the poor little guy either.

*Bump*

So, here's what been happening. We gave him some squash baby food today. Then I came home from work and gave him a bath. Well, he had a stray cricket in his cage from a couple days ago, must have been hiding under the one loose tile. Anyway, Slevin was basking after the bath (I took away his hides again so he would bask a bit and get some UV) and this cricket goes scurrying across the cool side of the cage. Slevin leaps off of his bricks, flies through the air and catches this guy in mid hop! Then he looked up at me. So I caved and I went and got a few crickets, dusted them, and dropped them in his cage. Now, back a week ago he was ignoring the crickets altogether, today he was all over his cage chasing them down, diving at them, just like usual! I got a couple more, and a couple more and he ate about 12 total. So, he took down some squash baby food, some calcium and vitamin enriched crickets, and even a few small chunks of red bell pepper. He's still whole-heartedly ignoring his collard greens though, unfortunately.

I know we were told to kind of hold back on the food due to possible brumation, but he can't go 5 weeks without eating while fighting coccidia and he was all about it today. He was loving it! Only bad thing was right when he was done with the crickets he jumped up on his hammock. He looked so cute lounging there but I moved him to his basking spot because we still don't know about his digestive situation. He hasn't gone since last Sunday again, but he hasn't really eaten anything either to be honest. Today was the only day he's really eaten anything at all.

If anyone has any advice they can give us we would love to have it. Been having some trouble getting responses for this guy.

Thanks all.

This sounds like a Tracie question. I'm supprised she hasn't found this yet. I do know when they are on meds you need to give them a probiotic, such as acidolphis ( o.k. so I can't spell certain words well, sorry) or there is another one I've read about, but I can't remember what it is.

What I had to do this week when I had a question that I wasn't getting an answer to was to pm drache613 (this is Tracie). I know she can help. She will answer you.

Awesome well I'm beat for tonight though. I'll contact her tomorrow or my wife will.

Thanks

Hello,

Slevin is a little over a year old, correct? If he is older than 1 year, then it is most likely brumation, if you have ruled everything else out. That is what they do. However, you have made the right decision in deciding not to let him brumate in the case that he had high coccidia levels, which apparently he did at the time.
Secondly did the vet do a fecal I assume, & did he give you a level or count of the coccidia before medicating?
If he is doing that well, he may not have needed much if any medication. While he is on the meds you should not withhold food, definitely not.
Also, as suggested, a probiotic would be helpful while he is on meds.
What type & brand of UVB are you using, is it a flourescent tube light or a compact or coil light? How close is it to him? What type of basking light are you using right now?
At least he is eating a little bit. You should try to get more oral fluids into him, daily to help out with the affects of the meds which tend to dehydrate him. Just use a plastic dropper to drip water on the end of his nose.
How often are you using calcium for him? Just the 2 times per week with or without D3? As an adult, 3 times is usually the best.
How do his urates look right now, are they hard, soft, white, discolored??

Tracie

Yes, Slevin is 1 year and 2 months old, we've had him since he was 6 months old. We have him in a 48X24X24 cage with indian slate tile for a floor and bricks for a basking spot, with some Petsmart hides thrown in with a hammock on the cool side.

On Thursday he was diagnosed with coccidia but the vet didn't say what count or anything. On that, I was just lazily browsing the forums and stumbled across something about BD's always having coccidia? I hope she knows that! lol.

We were given Panacur to give him orally in shots of .2 mL each, given weekly for 5 weeks.

We are using a 36" Repti-Sun 10.0 tube that just crossed it's 6 month stage and I have a new one coming in the mail sometime in the next couple days, I ordered it on Wednesday. If Slevin is on the floor of his cage laying flat he's within 20 inches of it and if he's basking or laying on his hides or his hammock he's within about a foot of it.

His basking light is a Director 75 Watt spot light inside of a modified clip lamp that is 9.5 inches above his basking spot. It makes the basking spot inside of 98-106 degrees. When he's on it though he's usually holding himself up high so his head and face are roughly 4-6 inches from the light bulb and looking happy as a clam. I don't know how they take that heat and brightness lol.

We generally use calcium every time we feed him. Should we not? Well, he hasn't been eating as much lately but before last week he was eating about 17 3/4 inch and bigger crickets every day dusted with Rep-Cal calcium with D3 and some Rep-Cal Herptivite multi-vitamin. And his salads would be dusted with a little multivitamin. Back before he got sick of phoenix worms we weren't dusting the worms at all because of the high calcium of them. Could he have OD'd on Calcium and vitamin?

He hasn't pooped since last Sunday but it looked ok, my wife said the urates were softish, and white. He hasn't eaten much this week, pretty much only the dozen crickets yesterday and some baby food throughout the week but not much so I'm not entirely surprised. The week before last was the same story though if you read through our other post, it took him 7 days to poop. :shock: And this week looks to be a repeat of that. We're a little concerned.

And as for today, I guess he stayed in his hides all day because we weren't sure what to do with him. Do you think we should take his hides out completely until he gets better? If he doesn't have his hides and he gets tired of basking he goes for his hammock and that's pretty warm and really close to his UV light. He just stomps around the cage for a bit to show his displeasure in not having his cave . We've been giving him plenty of baths for hydration too and he also still has a fancy for red bell pepper. It's pretty much the only vegetable he'll eat these past couple weeks. I guess that's okay, lots of water.

Well, that was a long reply but I got all your questions. Oh! What kind of probiotic should we get?

Thank you so much Tracie, you have no idea how much we appreciate it!

Hello,

Thanks for answering the questions. Your tank setup sounds good. My main thought is that the UVB is not quite close enough.
The Reptisun 10 IS the best flourescent tube bulb here in the US, but it really only stretches at the most 8-10 inches, but for maximal exposure we recommend 6-8 inches.
Is there any way that you can build him a higher basking platform, OR lower the UVB light down towards him? The basking light, is that at one end directly beside the UVB light too? The temps are perfect, so are you measuring them with a digital probe or a temp gun? That distance is fine for the basking light so if you could get the UVB to 6-8 inches that would be great.
The calcium for adults really only needs to be given 3 times per week, & vitamins only once. Too much supplementation when they don't need it can lead to constipation, or oversupplementation which can be almost as bad as not enough. It can cause harder urates, too. It is possible he has had too much supplementation right now especially when he is trying to slow down for brumation. They don't need supplementation when they slow down for brumation. Good that the urates were soft & white though so he is not dehydrated.
The panacur really only needs to be given at the longest once weekly for 3 weeks, but, most of the time a couple of doses usually does the trick. They all have low levels of coccidia in their system as part of their normal flora gut bacteria but it is only when they become stressed that the levels rise too high & can affect their health. I usually recommend getting a fecal before letting them brumate anyway just to make sure their levels are good.
Well, it is not completely abnormal for adults to go longer between pooping than babies. They take longer to digest as well. Plus, he sounds like he was trying to slow down so when their metabolisms slow so does their digestive system.
I would wait for a couple of weeks & then get another fecal done. If it is has cleared up, then it would be fine to let him brumate then as long as he has ample fatpads & hydration.
The best probiotic is acidophiliz but alot of people do use benebac or nutribac too.

Keep me posted.

Tracie

YIKES! Okay so we've obviously been oversupplementing. That's scary!

We take our measurements with a digital probe type thermometer which Slevin totally hates, he always pushes it off lol. And on our cool side that's measured with a digital thermometer/hydrometer that is velcroed to the wall. Oh by the way that stays within 78 and 82 normally.

It'll be no problem to change the uvb lamp around. I currently have it screwed right into the ceiling of the cage but I can just as easily suspend the light set-up by hooks and chains, it's how it's supposed to be mounted anyway.

And I don't know if I mentioned it but it was a fecal that was done for the coccidia diagnosis and she wants us to do the shots for 5 weeks then go back 2 weeks after for another fecal. So what are your thoughts on her making out the prescription for 5 weeks?

I mentioned this before and I figured I would again as long as you did. His head is still just as big and full as always. The fatpads on his head are nice and full and his eyes aren't sinking in or anything either. He looks perfectly healthy all the time besides the appetite loss and hiding. Oh, and I don't know if you missed that one question, but should we remove his hides for the next couple weeks?

And we'll also pick up that probiotic too.

Okay so he ate a bunch of crickets and two of the Rep-Cal Bearded Dragon Food Pellets and basked most of the day. He seemed more than a little confused by the pellets and would only eat them when they were rolled around constantly for about 5 minutes.

He seems like he's doing pretty good, better at least. My wife picked up the probiotic. It's the Bene-Bac stuff and it's for pets but the weird thing is that it's 4 1g tubes of the stuff, they're pretty big so we don't know how much to give. The instructions say to give the whole tube, but they also say that it's for mammals and it has a picture of two dogs on the front of it. Any thoughts?

Hello,

How is Slevin doing today?
Yes for now, go ahead & remove the hides just for a short bit until you get the coccidia cleared up & you make sure he is doing well.
If his next fecal is clear, I don't see any reason why he can't brumate then if his fatpads look good & he is well hydrated.
Maybe you can post a picture of him?
Great that he ate so much today, even the pellets. Ok, the benebac is concentrated. So, give just a "pea sized" amount of the gel paste to him, that is all he needs of it. He should like it also. I am glad you were able to find that.
You do have the flourescent tube, right? Just checking. Great if you could rearrange the lighting that would help. Your temps sound fine as well.
Well, to me, that sounds like a little bit too much medication especially if he is doing that well. It would be nice if you knew the actual count of the coccidia. What shot is he getting, & how often does he get it? Is it an Albon shot? Personally, most antibiotics are usually given for no longer than 7-10 days at the most. It is fairly dangerous to go beyond that for prolonged periods of time.
Just lower the calcium now to 3 times per week, & he will be fine. When he slows down again for brumation, just cut it out altogether until he comes back out.
Keep me posted on him.

Tracie

The meds we were given are called Panacur Liquid and he gets it once a week for 5 weeks with a needleless syringe through the mouth at doses of .2 mL. Then we wait 2 weeks and go back for another fecal. 5 weeks is considerably longer than 7-10 days! :lol: And yeah the UV light is the fluorescent tube and I'm gonna be lowering the light fixture tomorrow after work.

That pea sized amount, is that given only once, ever?

Oh, and he's sleeping now but I'll get a brand new pic of him tomorrow. I might have to take the pic with my blackberry though because one of our cameras is kind of broken and we lost the charger for the other one but I'll see what I can do. You'll get the idea of his size but the colors might be off, which would be a shame because his colors are so awesome! 8)

Thanks again Tracie! You're putting us at ease so much more effectively than our vet did.

Okay, as promised here are some pictures of Slevin taken about 10 minutes ago. He hasn't eaten yet today and he is about to be fed after I complete this post. It's with our old camera, only 6 megapixel but they don't look too bad. Hope you like what you see.






*Edit* Here are some from during and right after feeding. He ate like a freakin' horse, too. Man oh man I hope he poops soon. It's been 8 days again! Regardless, he seems pretty healthy. I'll give him a few hours of basking and I'll give him a bath.

Hello,

He looks very nice, great color!
The Panacur only needs to be given once weekly, & for only up to 2 or maybe 3 treatments. I would personally only do one treatment every 7 days, for a total of 2 treatments. So, only 2 treatments in 2 weeks. Then, get another fecal to retest the levels. I bet they will be down enough. Vets overmedicate fairly often. That dosage, however, looks about right however, but I am basing it on his size in the picture. He has to weigh at least 400 grams, right?
Thanks for posting all of those pictures!
I am glad you are feeling better about the situation & happy that I could help.

Tracie

Well, the invoice we got from the vet has him at 199 grams. But we're gonna buy a scale today at some point so we can monitor it ourselves.