Sudden change in behavior

I’m not sure of Cookie’s exact age, but I believe she is around 7 months. She’s been with me for 4 of those months and we’ve had 0 issues so far. She’s been growing like a weed and seems to be a very happy and healthy dragon. But for about a week now, she is suddenly refusing her greens, not finishing off her daily dubias, not pooping as frequently, and not being as active. She’s alert, but just not moving around as much.

She despises baths so I’ve avoided giving them to her unless necessary. With these changes in her behavior, I decided to give her one the other day. She actually seemed to enjoy it for the first time ever. I always provide a little rock so she can climb out of the water, and in the past she has always refused to come off this rock - but this time she didn’t bother with it and just swished around in the water the whole time. About a half hour after her bath, she promptly chowed down on her collard greens, pooped, and then was very active in her tank for the rest of the day. I was relieved!!

But then the next day (yesterday), she was the same. Didn’t touch her greens. Didn’t poop. Only ate about 20-25 of her roaches (she typically will enthusiastically gobble up at least 40 before starting to slow down). Again today, no greens, no poop. So I just gave her another bath about 30mins ago (which she enjoyed again), and again, promptly after, she devoured her whole bowl of greens, pooped, and is now active in her tank.


Cookie’s care specs:
Food:
Bowl of greens misted with filtered water every morning (mostly collard, mustard, and dandelion greens). She eats them everyday, usually shortly after I put them in, and nearly clears the entire bowl each day. Some days I’ll even give her a second bowl if I’m home when she finishes the first. My girl LOVES her greens.
I give her dubias every evening around 5-6 when I get home from work. I dust them with Rep-Cal Calcium powder 5x a week and Herptivite 2x a week. She will typically eat 50-60 per day. She gets crickets when I’m in-between dubia shipments, but she doesn’t like them as much as the roaches.
**I used to offer protein in the morning and evening, but she always refused in the AM, which is why I only offer in the evening now.**
I offer a raspberry occasionally (her favorite treat).

Enclosure:
4ftL, 18inH, 18inD. Front-opening tank. Reptile carpet for substrate, which is switched out weekly. Basking spot stays around 100F with a heat lamp and ceramic bulb. Cool side is 75-80. She usually warms up in her basking spot first thing in the morning, climbs down and spends time on the floor of the tank on the hot side for awhile, runs over and hangs out on the cool side for about an hour, then comes back to the floor of the hot side until feeding time, after which she will return to her basking spot until her lights go out. Digital probe thermometers used to gauge temp. UVB supplied by a Reptisun 10.0 T5HO which is mounted inside the enclosure and is 34inL. All lights are on a timer. They come on at 7am and go off at 8pm. Humidity is typically between 35-40%, but lately has been hovering around 50% (could this be the problem?)

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Should I just keep bathing her everyday and see if she returns to normal? Could the change in season be affecting her (or I guess possibly him, I can’t quite tell yet)? I haven’t increased the size of her insects recently, so I don’t think they are suddenly too big for her or anything. Is she just not consuming enough water since she’s not eating her misted greens? Does she need to see a vet? I do have the financial means for a vet visit, but would prefer to avoid spooking her/risking COVID-19 exposure for me if possible.

You have a eating machine on your hands ---- wow!! I would cut back on all those dubias and give her more salads--- she is going to end up over weight and I would cut the crickets out all together --- holy smokes!!! Plus she is a candidate for gout--- too much protein - what size dubias are you feeding her ? Mine is 10 months old and will eat about 10-15 dubias per day but not every day --- but of course hes getting butter worms super worms horn worms as well --- and his salads -- I would offer some of the worms I just mentioned -- have you tried dropping water on her nose to see if she will drink? And when she poops does it look dry do she have extra water shes pooping out?
Karrie

The shipments I receive include a range of roaches sizing from about 1/2in to 1in. The thought had occurred to me to cut back on her protein a bit (I’d really like to, these things are not cheap) but everything I have read has strongly cautioned against restricting protein while she’s still growing, so I thought I still had awhile to go before I could start cutting back. So you think she’s getting too much and that may be why her eating habits are off? I will happily cut back a bit and see if she starts eating her greens normally again.
I did recently start offering her small superworms and she enjoys them; but I’ve read they shouldn’t be offered everyday and that they should be introduced in small amounts at first, so she’s only had a few at a time on a couple of occasions.
I’ve been dripping water droplets on her nose each day. She just lets it sit there for a minute or two before eventually licking it off.
Her poops don’t look like they have changed. They’re not dry by any means, but they are solid. She poops on paper towels and there is always liquid on the towel surrounding the poop.

Hi there, I agree with Karrie. It seems that more dragons end up with gout these days and it may be linked to high protein diets. Can you post a few pics of her ? BTW, include a pic with the tail arched high so I can [ probably ] sex her. Here's how to post pics :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

Here's how to arch the tail for sexing.
https://www.beardeddragon.org/articles/sexing/

Roaches will keep for awhile so don't worry about that - are you keeping them in a plastic tote or 10 gallon aquarium? It's good your offering worms- you can also offer silk they are another good staple feeder--- www.reptilianarts.com or www.mulberryfarms.com or www.coastilsilkworms.com-- mulberry was out last I looked reptilian has them you can order by cup w/ food or bulk - if you order bulk make sure you order food for them and clean out their containers every day and old food if they don't eat it all- you can feed supers everyday just limit them to like 1-3-- it sounds like she's hydrated -
Karrie

Sure thing! Here’s a few (took them just now, so they are very current). I tried to pick her up to get the one of her tail, but she did not want to be held at that moment and scrambled right out of my hand. I’ll try again in a bit to get that one.

I’ve now been doing some reading about gout since your comment, and I’m feeling very concerned and drowning in guilt. She’s my first dragon, and I just feel horrible now about this possibility! I had previously been feeding her around 30 dubias daily, but was informed that she needed around 50 per day because she’s young, so I was letting her eat more. I’m worried that this misinformation may have done irreversible damage now

I will immediately be reducing her to 15-20 per day, and obviously will continue her salads. I just took her out and examined her thoroughly... nothing seems to be abnormally swollen, and her movement looks normal too. I’ll keep a close eye on her, hopefully it’s NOT gout and she’ll start to return to normal over the next few days as her diet balances back out. If it is gout, why would the bath seem to affect her so positively (eating, pooping, and super active promptly afterward)? It seems like a bath shouldn’t make that much of a difference for something like gout? I’ll take her to the vet in a few days if this off behavior persists. Any other input in the meantime is still appreciated!!

Her legs will start to swell and gout is very painful - I am diabetic and was getting gout around my toes and it hurt- they give allopurinol for gout- same for dragons but she doesn't appear that is what's going on -- as far as the bathing and strange behavior I can't answer that one maybe ahbd or Tracie can answer
Karrie--

Thanks, Karrie! It is comforting to hear another person say that it doesn’t look like gout, so I’ll try to relax for tonight. (I was starting to spiral into a bit of a panic.) Hopefully reducing protein will correct the issue. I suppose I wouldn’t feel all that great if I was eating copious amounts of meat everyday. We’ll see how she’s feeling tomorrow.

Would it possibly be beneficial to skip a day of protein tomorrow to allow her system to balance out a bit, and just offer the salad for the day? Or is she too young to do that?

I would just cut back she is not going to starve w/ her eating salads and super worms-- I would get another staple insect going - like silk worms and she will eat around 3-4 of those if they are good size cutting out amount of dubias--- I feed mine silks and dubias--- blaze is 10 months and I offer him silks and dubias--- everyday along w/ his salads and butter worms and supers 3 supers and a couple of butterworms- and 1-2 horn worms-- some days he doesn't eat all of that but it's offered- I will feed silks in the morning and dubias in afternoon-
Karrie

Perfect! I am on Reptilian Arts now and am about to place an order for silkworms... I’ve been wanting to try those out anyway. I do have some supers on-hand still so I’ll give her a few of those tomorrow morning with her salad. Thank you for all of your input, I really appreciate it.

Hey Karrie- my silkworms are coming today! ReptilianArts is actually located in the same state as me, so shipping was incredibly quick. Could you clarify how many you recommend I give Cookie per meal?

Depends on big the worm is if it's small 4 or so medium try 2-3 and if they are big 1-2-- I would add them to the top of her salads along w/ a few supers - she can have some steak w/ her salad- protein content of silk worms is 16% while dubias is 36%- so that is good-
Karrie

Littlebuddysmomma":3dk59vjr said:

I’m not sure of Cookie’s exact age, but I believe she is around 7 months. .... She’s been growing like a weed and seems to be a very happy and healthy dragon. But for about a week now, she is suddenly refusing her greens, not finishing off her daily dubias, not pooping as frequently, and not being as active. She’s alert, but just not moving around as much.

Click to expand...

At first read I was wondering how you got my dragon--except that he's a he. :lol:
Mine just turned 7 months, and is going through a very similar phase; I posted it here.

It doesn't look to me like Cookie has gout either. She also doesn't appear overweight, so as long as she's been eating greens & veggies right along, I wouldn't worry about too much protein.

They really don't need baths unless they soil themselves walking through it or something. A warm bath sometimes helps constipation, but I wouldn't be concerned over a day or two of missing.

Thank you for your input! Nice to hear that my dragon isn’t the only one. That makes me feel a lot better. She seems totally healthy aside from these changes, so I just haven’t been sure what to think. Transitioning into sub-adult makes total sense though. They have to go through these changes at some point!

I didn’t really used to bathe her much up until these past few days. And now I’m doing it more frequently because (aside from the fact that she seems to REALLY be enjoying the water) promptly after her bath, she’ll happily eat her greens and poop. No bath; no greens, no poop. I’m not sure what the deal is with that. I’m guessing she’s having some sort of digestive issue and the bath helps her?

Without a bath, she will eat anything else I give her besides greens at this point. A raspberry, a few bites of asparagus, supers, dubias... literally anything BUT greens. She has always been so good about eating them, so it’s frustrating that she’s suddenly refusing all of her favorite kinds. I think I’m going to try to get to the store today and grab some kale. She’s never had it, and maybe she just wants something new. I offered cilantro yesterday for the first time, but she wasn’t interested in even tasting it.

Another thing I’m noticing her doing is ‘flexing’ her beard frequently!! Not in an agitated manner at all, just kind of inflating it while she’s hanging out. She’ll puff it up and deflate it a few times. I’ve seen her do this many times before, especially when she’s shedding, but she’s doing it more now and doesn’t look like she’s about to shed.

Now that I can keep in mind that this could be the result of transitioning away from juvie, I feel less confused. I’ll just have to keep working with her while she lets me know what she wants. And reducing her protein to the appropriate amount will hopefully have her digestive system balanced back out over the next few days.

..... and as I finished up typing all that, I heard a crunch - looked over and she’s chowing down on her greens! Without a bath! First time in over a week. Maybe she’ll even poop soon.