Only eats dusted crickets?

Status
Not open for further replies.

MadMod

Member
Hello everyone!
My bearded dragon (his name is Hunter) does something that seems to be the opposite of what everyone else has when associated with dusting crickets, as in he will never touch an undusted cricket.

I found this out when I started noticing that Hunter would not touch his food, and let the crickets jump around his cage. I'd remove them for the night, so they don't start nipping at him. He also has a shallow rubbermaid tub that I started to feed him in. For the longest time, I thought he was spoiled in only eating superworms (since that's what my mom would only feed him, she can't stand touching insects), but I noticed that he ate a recently molted cricket, that's all white. Then I dusted the crickets, and he didn't even hesitate to eat them!

Here's a little backstory for Hunter. When I rescued him from the wild (in Mid-Missouri, he would surely die from either snakes, or just the cold itself) I thought he had the starting stages of MBD, so I only fed him dusted crickets to try to treat him. He's very alert and curious, but I noticed his hind left leg was ticking like a clock, so I talked to one of my college's Biology professor (who has a few bearded dragons himself) and he said it could be the start of MBD.

ANYWAY, to get to my point, I'm afraid that if he continues to eat dusted crickets uncontrolled, his Phosphorus/Calcium balance would be out of whack, progressing his MBD. Does anyone else have this problem, and is there a way to revert him back to normal crickets?
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
Crickets are poor Ca/P without being fed and gutloaded with calcium rich greens and must be dusted with calcium, similar with roaches and locusts.

More information is needed to diagnose the situation and recommend any necessary chances.

A common mistake is cohabitation (if sharing tank or can see another beardie) , even if he can see another beardie , or a snake or very large lizard ?
Are there other pets (cats, dogs ) in the household ?

And details of your feeding schedule and other husbandry aspects .
Might be a very easy fix .

Photos of the tank and showing substrate and lighting and of the beardies will help too. Use XIMG button to upload photos from your computer.

How heavy is the beardie ?
...... recommend weighing him regularly (weekly say)?

Can you give us a good rundown on the setup and schedules (light and feeding) :
Basking light
........ is it a coloured globe ? (BAD)
........ what is it's wattage ?
........ how far from the basking spot ?

TEMPERATURES ?
>>> daytime
.......warm zone
.......basking spot
...... how are you measuring your temperatures ?
TOO COLD = SLEEPY DRAGON
>>> overnight minimum viv temperatures ?

UVA AND UVB ADEQUATE ?
>>> is the uv rated AT LEAST 10%UVB ?
>>> is it a COMPACT (curly globe & WATTAGE ?
>>> or a T8 tube ?
>>> or a T5 tube ?
>>> or an MVB ?
VERY IMPORTANT : what is the brand ?
(not all UVB compacts and tubes are created equal or as well , many shops sell their own brand (Zilla, All Living Things, Reptile-One, Nat Geo , Natural Selections (in green boxes) which are cheap Chinese clones made very cheaply using very poor quality quartz glass and cheap phosphors ==> very poor UV spectrum produced incl UVC band and bad parts of the UVB band)

>>> also is it covered (in a domestic fluorescent light fitting )? == BAD
>>> also is it sitting ontop a mesh top ? == BAD
>>> how far from basking spot ?
too far and the UVA and UVB WILL BE TOO DILUTE.
UVA FLUX TOO LOW where dragon is ==> a very lethargic dragon w/ a very poor apetite just in the short term , and neurological problems if this persists , not to mention MVB if UVB flux too low long enough with inadequate metabolisation of dietary calcium or inadequate intake out calcium

TANK
>>> size (L x W x H) and construction , photos of the setup are often helpful .

SUBSTRATE ?
>>> is it sand ? == BAD AND IF CALCISAND this is EXTREMELY BAD/LETHAL when ingested
>>> is it particulate ? == BAD

SHARING TANK ? == BAD

TOO SHORT A PHOTOPERIOD (lights are not kept on long enough each day , will make beardie think it is winter , recommend at least 14 HRS PER DAY)

FEEDING SCHEDULE (I recommend at least 2 hrs lights/heat on before first live feed and after last feed of the day)
>>> when are you offering live feeder insects ? what are they ? how big are they ?
>>> when are you offering greens and other veg ? what are you offering ?
good guide is here : http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutritionframeset.html
 

MadMod

Member
Original Poster
Aah, this is a very detailed list to go through, and I will do my best to answer them accordingly and accurately (I'm a college student and also work in IT, so I'm used to filling out super-detailed forums based on a scenario).

He's eating crickets that are gutloaded from the local petstore, but I don't feed them to Hunter until 24 hours has passed. I use the orange cubes from Flukers, and they seem to nibble at them. I wish I could try Locusts, but they're illegal to contain in the states (atleast where I live, as they're terrible pests).

Cohabitation

I only own one bearded dragon, Hunter. He has paper lining the edges of his tank so he does not see his reflection as much, but they're just blank pieces of paper. I do have a dog (named Scruffy), but he does not move much (still though, Hunter may need to get used to him). The way I have the sides covered, neither of them cannot see each other unless Scruffy is at the edge of my bed, which is a good 4 foot away.

Feeding Schedule

In the morning before work, when I wake up ~9 (lights on at ~8:30a, but accuracy is tough since I have a mechanical timer, and light starts coming in the windows around 6-7a), I usually put hunter in his feeding box; shallow enough for him to leave if he wanted, but deep enough for the crickets to behave. To dust, I use Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Calcium with Vit.D, which I sprinkle a teaspoon into a mason jar, then add 7-12 crickets into the jar, and tumble at a 45 degree angle. I NEVER SHAKE THE CRICKETS, as it will cause the ultrafine calcium powder to become airborne, which is a big risk for Hunter to breath in. Basically if it makes me sneeze or cough, then I won't let it get near Hunter. He usually does not eat any of the crickets, but I give him the opportunity, and he usually scratches at the front and left side of the cage when I start to wake up. Once I've let him out for 10 minutes to see if he'll eat anything, I'll put him back inside his tank, and after a few minutes he will open his mouth to regulate his temperature, usually when I get back with Mustard Greens and either Okra, Mangoes or ocassionally blueberries. The mustard greens I usually tear up into nickel or dime size pieces, the mangoes and Okra I put in the food processor, and the blueberries I just cut in half.
92247-2397795408.jpg
92247-1138874847.jpg
He usually poos during this time, or before I get home. I have a miniature wet/dry vacuum, and I vacuum up the excriment and wipe the area with a very dillute solution of bleach and water (I hear people say 10:1 Bleach Water is best.)

Substrate/Temperatures
As you can see from my pictures, I have a flat stone that keeps heat quite well, without frying his belly when he walks off, and that's propped up on a faux branch. Also, I use tiles as a substrate, which I keep loose (with very little play) as I absolutely do not trust adhesives to stand up well to both UVB lighting and UVA heat. His basking temp (in direct light) is around 105-115 (right now it's 115 @ 4:33p), and ambient on the hot side it's ~86. His cooler side usually runs between 75 to 82. There's no source of heat on the cool side, but there is a LED filament bulb that provides warm light, with the color temperature around 2700k, and now that I think about it, that might be considered a colored bulb, so I may change it, if you think that's bad for him. As for distance, he's definately further than 6" from the UVB tube, but the height from the basking light ranges from 8" to 12", as his basking rock is at a slope.

Weight

Unfortunately, I do not have a way to weigh him, as I have just discovered the batteries in my scale has leaked and corroded the battery terminals and inside of the scale.
To be honest, if I had to guess, I would say he weighs less than a can of Soda, if that helps... Hunter definitely looks skinny when he is not puffed up for some light. I'd take a picture, but he went under the nook underneath his basking rock.

UVB

When I rescued Hunter a month ago in the wild (he was abandoned from his previous owner, whom I suspect was a graduating student that used to live on campus), he was only under a 75w UVA bulb for little under a week, until my aunt, who recently lost her Frilled Neck Dragon, gave me a brand new UVB 10.0 coil from Repi-sun. A week or 2 later, I got him a tube, which is the Zoomed Repi-sun 10.0
18" T8 tube ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YJ3BE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . It is mounted to the top of my tank using screws screwed into 2 scotch double sided stickey foam, and then I superglued the nubs of the glue, for paranoia's sake. *

Tank Setup
This is Hunter's tank.
92247-828214861.jpg
92247-7823315486.jpg

To be honest, I don't think I like this setup. I want to have a flat basking rock near the back that's elevated and closer to his lights, and have a hidey cave underneath, so he can sleep or hide whenever he wants to, with the other side with just his water and food, but I'm trying to refrain from changing his cage too much, as I did move him from the dim cold livingroom to my bright warm bedroom about over a week ago (although he ate alot better after I moved him).
His cage is 36Lx18Wx16H, and here's a link to it: http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/terrariums/all-living-things-reptile-terrarium-5195135.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional
As I have said before, I have used tile instead of carpet or sand, as it's the easiest to clean out. The tile I have chosen is quite easy for him to walk around on (I tested at what degrees would cause him to start slipping off the tile, and it was around 30 degrees).

Photoperiod

As I have said above, he is on a 12/12 cycle; on at 8:30 in the morning, off at 8:30 at night (which is approximately when the sun starts to go down). You say I should have it at least 14 hours a day, so should I do it more towards the morning, or more towards the night? My guess would be morning, since around 8:30-9 it starts to go dark where I live (Central Missouri).

Feeding Schedule

I feed him first thing when I wake up (and I let the dog out), which is when he usually scratches at the cage. I only feed him live insects (he recently tried Dubias, and he didn't eat the undusted ones, but he did eat the ones dusted). His staple are feeder crickets from a local pet shop whom gutloads them with Fluker's Orange Cubes, which is what I feed my crickets. I do not feed him new crickets until 24 hours later, just so I'm sure they've eaten. I let him out and put him in his feeding box with dusted crickets for 10 minutes, then if he doesn't eat them, I put them in his cage. I do this because the crickets annoyingly hide under his basking rock, and I want to give Hunter a good chance of eating some. He NEVER hesitates when Superworms are given to him, but I don't give them to him as a staple, although my mom does. I try to explain to her that she's spoiling hunter too much by giving him worms, and the only time I give him worms is when I want him to eat some greens.

I should mention greens again. As I said before, his staple is Mustard Greens, but sometimes I add in Mangoes, Okra, or Blueberries. I used to give him kale right when I first got him for a week, but I stopped that now, since kale can throw off his calcium balance. I always give him greens in the morning, and then replace the greens at night. I have a feeling he doesn't touch them that much anymore, as I now often come home with them undisturbed.

I think I touched pretty much all of the bases, but do let me know if you want more information. I'll try to get a scale in soon, but I live in a small town, and the only place that would have it (a Walmart Supercenter) is renovating the isle the scales are in, so I could not buy one unfortunately.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
MadMod":lnkgmdg0 said:
Aah, this is a very detailed list to go through, and I will do my best to answer them accordingly and accurately (I'm a college student and also work in IT, so I'm used to filling out super-detailed forums based on a scenario).

He's eating crickets that are gutloaded from the local petstore, but I don't feed them to Hunter until 24 hours has passed. I use the orange cubes from Flukers, and they seem to nibble at them. I wish I could try Locusts, but they're illegal to contain in the states (atleast where I live, as they're terrible pests).

Cohabitation

I only own one bearded dragon, Hunter. He has paper lining the edges of his tank so he does not see his reflection as much, but they're just blank pieces of paper. I do have a dog (named Scruffy), but he does not move much (still though, Hunter may need to get used to him). The way I have the sides covered, neither of them cannot see each other unless Scruffy is at the edge of my bed, which is a good 4 foot away.

Feeding Schedule

In the morning before work, when I wake up ~9 (lights on at ~8:30a, but accuracy is tough since I have a mechanical timer, and light starts coming in the windows around 6-7a), I usually put hunter in his feeding box; shallow enough for him to leave if he wanted, but deep enough for the crickets to behave. To dust, I use Rep-Cal Phosphorus-Free Calcium with Vit.D, which I sprinkle a teaspoon into a mason jar, then add 7-12 crickets into the jar, and tumble at a 45 degree angle. I NEVER SHAKE THE CRICKETS, as it will cause the ultrafine calcium powder to become airborne, which is a big risk for Hunter to breath in. Basically if it makes me sneeze or cough, then I won't let it get near Hunter. He usually does not eat any of the crickets, but I give him the opportunity, and he usually scratches at the front and left side of the cage when I start to wake up. Once I've let him out for 10 minutes to see if he'll eat anything, I'll put him back inside his tank, and after a few minutes he will open his mouth to regulate his temperature, usually when I get back with Mustard Greens and either Okra, Mangoes or ocassionally blueberries. The mustard greens I usually tear up into nickel or dime size pieces, the mangoes and Okra I put in the food processor, and the blueberries I just cut in half.


92247-2397795408.jpg
92247-1138874847.jpg
He usually poos during this time, or before I get home. I have a miniature wet/dry vacuum, and I vacuum up the excriment and wipe the area with a very dillute solution of bleach and water (I hear people say 10:1 Bleach Water is best.)

Substrate/Temperatures
As you can see from my pictures, I have a flat stone that keeps heat quite well, without frying his belly when he walks off, and that's propped up on a faux branch. Also, I use tiles as a substrate, which I keep loose (with very little play) as I absolutely do not trust adhesives to stand up well to both UVB lighting and UVA heat. His basking temp (in direct light) is around 105-115 (right now it's 115 @ 4:33p)<<<<< this is WAY TOO HOT, you are cooking him !!!! , no more than 105 F at the basking spot (40-42 degC) , and ambient on the hot side it's ~86. His cooler side usually runs between 75 to 82. There's no source of heat on the cool side, but there is a LED filament bulb that provides warm light, with the color temperature around 2700k, and now that I think about it, that might be considered a colored bulb, so I may change it, if you think that's bad for him. As for distance, he's definately further than 6" from the UVB tube, but the height from the basking light ranges from 8" to 12", as his basking rock is at a slope. <<<< needs to be able to get closer then 8" from the UVb tube to get sufficient UVA and UVB from a 10%uvb T8 tube even with a reflector behind it.

Weight

Unfortunately, I do not have a way to weigh him, as I have just discovered the batteries in my scale has leaked and corroded the battery terminals and inside of the scale.
To be honest, if I had to guess, I would say he weighs less than a can of Soda, if that helps... Hunter definitely looks skinny when he is not puffed up for some light. I'd take a picture, but he went under the nook underneath his basking rock.
<<< flat digital kitchen scales are cheap , regularly weighins are a good way to tell if the beardie is growing or if he's loosing weight.

UVB

When I rescued Hunter a month ago in the wild (he was abandoned from his previous owner, whom I suspect was a graduating student that used to live on campus), he was only under a 75w UVA bulb for little under a week, until my aunt, who recently lost her Frilled Neck Dragon, gave me a brand new UVB 10.0 coil from Repi-sun. A week or 2 later, I got him a tube, which is the Zoomed Repi-sun 10.0
18" T8 tube ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0009YJ3BE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 . It is mounted to the top of my tank using screws screwed into 2 scotch double sided stickey foam, and then I superglued the nubs of the glue, for paranoia's sake. *
<<<< it's a domestic t8 hood, this is fine , BUT , it has no reflector builtin and I'm betting
1) it's still got the opalescent plastic diffuser cover / protector screen that covers the t8 tube --- this needs to be removed IMMEDIATELY as it is completely impervious to UVA and UVB , so he's getting ZERO UVA and ZERO UVB.
2) no reflector in the hood, need to install a reflector , this will effectively double the UVA and UVB.
3) it's mounted ON TOP of the mesh lid of your viv , so even if there was no plastic screen covering the t8 tube, the mesh top will be blocking nearly 1/3 of the UVA and UVB from the tube., needs to be relocated so it's UNDER the mesh lid (all you need are some cable ties to secure it)
4) the uv light needs to coincide with basking light so he gets UVA and UVB while basking.

He's lethargic because he is getting zero UVA and zero UVB , so he's is unable to convert dietary calcium to vitD3. This is very serious and needs urgent changes to avoid MBD and serious neurological problems perhaps worse.

Tank Setup
This is Hunter's tank.
92247-828214861.jpg
92247-7823315486.jpg

To be honest, I don't think I like this setup. I want to have a flat basking rock near the back that's elevated and closer to his lights, and have a hidey cave underneath, so he can sleep or hide whenever he wants to, with the other side with just his water and food, but I'm trying to refrain from changing his cage too much, as I did move him from the dim cold livingroom to my bright warm bedroom about over a week ago (although he ate alot better after I moved him).
His cage is 36Lx18Wx16H, and here's a link to it: http://www.petsmart.com/reptile/habitats-and-decor/terrariums/all-living-things-reptile-terrarium-5195135.html?utm_medium=email&utm_source=transactional
As I have said before, I have used tile instead of carpet or sand, as it's the easiest to clean out. The tile I have chosen is quite easy for him to walk around on (I tested at what degrees would cause him to start slipping off the tile, and it was around 30 degrees).

Photoperiod

As I have said above, he is on a 12/12 cycle; on at 8:30 in the morning, off at 8:30 at night (which is approximately when the sun starts to go down). You say I should have it at least 14 hours a day, so should I do it more towards the morning, or more towards the night? My guess would be morning, since around 8:30-9 it starts to go dark where I live (Central Missouri). <<<
<<<< my lights are on a household programmable timer ,on 6am , off 10pm.

Feeding Schedule

I feed him first thing when I wake up (and I let the dog out), which is when he usually scratches at the cage. I only feed him live insects (he recently tried Dubias, and he didn't eat the undusted ones, but he did eat the ones dusted). His staple are feeder crickets from a local pet shop whom gutloads them with Fluker's Orange Cubes <<<< worthless - ditch the Flukers Cubes,.
I feed/gutload my crickets dry Repcal Adult Beardie Pellets + fresh carrot (food and hydration) + fresh buk or Puk Choi.

, which is what I feed my crickets. I do not feed him new crickets until 24 hours later, just so I'm sure they've eaten. I let him out and put him in his feeding box with dusted crickets for 10 minutes, then if he doesn't eat them, I put them in his cage. I do this because the crickets annoyingly hide under his basking rock, and I want to give Hunter a good chance of eating some. He NEVER hesitates when Superworms are given to him, but I don't give them to him as a staple, although my mom does. I try to explain to her that she's spoiling hunter too much by giving him worms, and the only time I give him worms is when I want him to eat some greens.

I should mention greens again. As I said before, his staple is Mustard Greens, but sometimes I add in Mangoes, Okra, or Blueberries. I used to give him kale right when I first got him for a week, but I stopped that now, since kale can throw off his calcium balance. I always give him greens in the morning, and then replace the greens at night. I have a feeling he doesn't touch them that much anymore, as I now often come home with them undisturbed.

I think I touched pretty much all of the bases, but do let me know if you want more information. I'll try to get a scale in soon, but I live in a small town, and the only place that would have it (a Walmart Supercenter) is renovating the isle the scales are in, so I could not buy one unfortunately.

I think he is getting zero UV , and his basking spot and probably his warm zone too are too hot .

How are measuring the temperatures ?
 

MadMod

Member
Original Poster
I think he is getting zero UV , and his basking spot and probably his warm zone too are too hot .

How are measuring the temperatures ?

He is a little more than six inches from his UVB tube, and I measure his heat using a digital thermometer with a probe. I lowered the rock a bit, but I did not check the temperature. I will show you a lower picture once I get back home, properly showing the UVB tube.
 

kingofnobbys

BD.org Sicko
MadMod":pgcogxwy said:
Actually, I did have this overexposed picture...
92247-4700127980.jpg

Is good that it's had the plastic cover removed and the luminare is mounted UNDER the screen lid.

Unfortunately the T8 tube is being directed out rather than down and it appears there is no reflector behind the T8 tube so the UVA and UVB are inadequate. Easy fixed by installing a reflector like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arcadia-Linear-Fluorescent-Tube-Reflectors-Clip-On-T5-or-T8-Reptile-Aquatic-/171194079622
 

MadMod

Member
Original Poster
kingofnobbys":2d5se4l4 said:
MadMod":2d5se4l4 said:
Actually, I did have this overexposed picture...
92247-4700127980.jpg

Is good that it's had the plastic cover removed and the luminare is mounted UNDER the screen lid.

Unfortunately the T8 tube is being directed out rather than down and it appears there is no reflector behind the T8 tube so the UVA and UVB are inadequate. Easy fixed by installing a reflector like this http://www.ebay.com/itm/Arcadia-Linear-Fluorescent-Tube-Reflectors-Clip-On-T5-or-T8-Reptile-Aquatic-/171194079622

Unfortunately they do not ship to the states, but that's still very good information that I did not know.
When you say UVA and UVB, you mostly mean UVB, since the tubes put out UVB, and the basking lamp puts out UVA? Also, does anyone think it would be a good idea to just remove the branch propping up the rock, so he has a nice wide area to bask, while also lowering the basking temperature? I appreciate any information!
 

MadMod

Member
Original Poster
I just lowered his basking rock, and I removed the tree thing from his cage. I found out that his temperatures were getting quite hot, to where he'd just hang on the edge, but not directly in the heat. I got him new rocks (they're more dense, so they have a better capacity of heat, if he wants to get back on) and they're prettier!

Right now, he's moving around, but he does not move much. He's mostly napping in 2 different spots, which I guess is a good thing. I need to find him something to play with, or to do. I might try to remove the background on the right side of his viv, so he can look out the window.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Still Needs Help

Latest resources

Latest posts

Latest profile posts

Day 3 of brumation. It's a struggle. I really miss my little guy. 😔
Mirage entered brumation yesterday, I'm gonna miss hanging out with my little guy.
Getting ready for another day. Feeling sleepy. 😴
I just walked into my room and instead of looking at me, Swordtail's eyes darted directly to the ice cream drumstick I'm holding
Finally replaced Swordtail's substrate

Forum statistics

Threads
156,116
Messages
1,257,956
Members
76,088
Latest member
SherlockMommy
Top Bottom