New Beardie Mommy

I’ve read through tons of threads, but I still feel the need to start my own. Sorry in advance everyone. I wasn’t finding everything I needed in one and I didn’t feel posting and sifting through 12 different ones would be helpful.

I got my Khalessi about a month ago now. She’s been doing very well. At first we had issues keeping her tank above 100. We got an under heated and got a ceramic bulb and her tank now sits right around 109 daytime and 84 night time. Which is what I was told it should be around.

About three days ago she started getting lethargic, not moving from below and under the shade, she is shedding, she isn’t eating her Dubia’s, and she just wants to sleep, preferably on her momma (me in her favorite place, my ponytail). I have had her out to bathe her with a extra soft tooth brush to help her shed and she loves it. She just falls asleep. I also drop water into her mouth and she opens up and takes the drops in.

We have had zero luck getting her to eat any of her greens or veggies. Ive tried several things. I do dust her Dubia’s with calcium as needed, but she is very picky and will not eat them if they are too dusted. She will eat the ones that are less dusted. She is a very picky eater.

I need suggestions, ideas, ER suggestions, and any other advice you might have. I am a nurse, so I would be pretty savvy to most anything, of course it’s a reptile and not a human, but I’m not coming from left field. I’ve read organic baby food (chicken, some veggies, in a syringe and feed that) and it will hydrate and give them what they need? We did not get her from a pet store. We bought her from a very reputable breeder and waited for her to be born and picked her. So she is not the result of a mass breeding, but I do understand that they can still get illnesses as well from the bugs hey eat and such. We do buy from a good big breeder who has amazing bugs. But, anything can happen.

I’m just worried. She’s my baby. I want her to feel better and back to her playful self.

I’m ready for feedback. Thank you for your time in advance. I appreciate it greatly. Happy new year.

Angela

Hi Angela, there may be a few adjustments that can possibly help. First off, the night temp. should be in the 70 range, also there needs to be a cool side of about 78-80 during the day .

What exact type + brand of light do you have, esp. the uvb ? That's very important . Please post pics of the dragon as well as the entire set up , her's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

Hi Angela, welcome, and don't apologize, we're happy to help you...

It sounds like you have a serious temperature problem to me, which is causing dehydration and possibly a dangerous heat situation, as well as possibly an inadequate UVB light, as you didn't mention what UVb light you have, but here's what it sounds like:

There should actually be 3 temperature distinct temperature zones inside a Bearded Dragon's tank: a Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature that is between 88-93 degrees F maximum, then the opposite Cool Side Ambient (air) Temperature that is between 75-80 degrees F maximum, and then finally, located within the Hot Side of the tank, positioned directly underneath both the long UVB tube and the bright-white colored Basking Bulb is the Basking Spot/Platform Surface Temperature, which should be between 105-110 degrees F maximum for a baby or juvenile dragon up to a year to a year and a half old, and then between 100-105 degrees F maximum for an older adult.

You only listed 2 temperatures, and usually that means that the person is only using some type of stick-on thermometer to measure the temperatures, and this is a serious problem. Most importantly, no stick-on thermometer can measure the Basking Spot Surface Temperature, they can only measure Ambient/Air Temperatures, and then in addition all stick-on thermometers are extremely inaccurate, and usually off by at least 10-20 degrees, usually to the low side. You must have either a $10 Digital Probe Thermometer that you can take the Probe and place directly on the surface of the Basking Spot/Platform or an Infrared Temperature Gun that you can aim at the Basking Spot/Platform to take that Surface Temperature...

****So if I'm correct that you're only using a stick-on thermometer, that means that his Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature, which should only be between 88-93 degrees, is actually 109 degrees (and that's assuming that the stick-on thermometer is correct), so obviously this is way too hot, dangerously hot, and is dehydrating him, and more serious is his Basking Spot Surface/Platform Temperature, which is going to naturally be much hotter than the Air Temperature around it...110 degrees is the highest any temperature should be inside a Bearded Dragon's tank, with anything over that for any length of time being potentially fatal.

If I'm wrong and you are using either a Digital Probe Thermometer or an Infrared Temperature Gun, and the 109 degrees is actually the Basking Spot Surface Temperature and not the Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature, then I apologize, and we'll move on to what UVB light you have, because it is every bit as important as the temperature, albeit that the temperatures may be more urgent in this particular situation. This totally explains his behavior though, he'd be severely dehydrated, and possibly suffering from Heat Exhaustion.

If you don't already have one, you need to purchase a $10 Digital Probe Thermometer immediately, and then use the Probe to measure all 3 temperature zones (allowing the Probe to sit on each spot for at least 20-30 minutes before reading each temperature). In addition, you certainly do not need any type of nighttime heat source!!!!

Dragons come from the Australian Desert, which is not only Pitch-Black at night, but also very, very cool! 99% of people who own Beardies do not need any type of nighttime heat source for them at all, and they actually end up severely disrupting their sleep by adding one. As long as his tank stays at 65 degrees, which is where he'll be most comfortable at night to sleep, then he needs absolutely no nighttime heat source. Your house would have to be at 60 degrees or lower at night for his tank to fall below 65 degrees. And if by chance your house is colder than 60 degrees at night, then yes, you want to use a CHE at night instead of any type of night bulb because he can't have any type or color of light on at night, however you only want to bump his nighttime temperature up to between 65-70 degrees maximum so that he'll sleep comfortably, so you only need a very, very low wattage CHE, otherwise his nighttime temperature will be as hot as his daytime temperatures and that's going to disrupt his sleep. So having him at 80 degrees or above at night is too warm for him, and I'd turn off the CHE at night and let him be comfortable to sleep.

My main concern right now is getting his daytime tank temperatures straightened out, because if I'm correct he's far too hot and you need a lower wattage of bright-white colored Basking Bulb.

AHBD":3efw0ae7 said:

Hi Angela, there may be a few adjustments that can possibly help. First off, the night temp. should be in the 70 range, also there needs to be a cool side of about 78-80 during the day .

What exact type + brand of light do you have, esp. the uvb ? That's very important . Please post pics of the dragon as well as the entire set up , her's how :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

Click to expand...

I uploaded photos from tonight... and then some from before she got sick so you could see the difference.

No pics showed up yet.

EllenD":1z5xggxf said:

Hi Angela, welcome, and don't apologize, we're happy to help you...

It sounds like you have a serious temperature problem to me, which is causing dehydration and possibly a dangerous heat situation, as well as possibly an inadequate UVB light, as you didn't mention what UVb light you have, but here's what it sounds like:


There should actually be 3 temperature distinct temperature zones inside a Bearded Dragon's tank: a Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature that is between 88-93 degrees F maximum, then the opposite Cool Side Ambient (air) Temperature that is between 75-80 degrees F maximum, and then finally, located within the Hot Side of the tank, positioned directly underneath both the long UVB tube and the bright-white colored Basking Bulb is the Basking Spot/Platform Surface Temperature, which should be between 105-110 degrees F maximum for a baby or juvenile dragon up to a year to a year and a half old, and then between 100-105 degrees F maximum for an older adult.


You only listed 2 temperatures, and usually that means that the person is only using some type of stick-on thermometer to measure the temperatures, and this is a serious problem. Most importantly, no stick-on thermometer can measure the Basking Spot Surface Temperature, they can only measure Ambient/Air Temperatures, and then in addition all stick-on thermometers are extremely inaccurate, and usually off by at least 10-20 degrees, usually to the low side. You must have either a $10 Digital Probe Thermometer that you can take the Probe and place directly on the surface of the Basking Spot/Platform or an Infrared Temperature Gun that you can aim at the Basking Spot/Platform to take that Surface Temperature...


****So if I'm correct that you're only using a stick-on thermometer, that means that his Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature, which should only be between 88-93 degrees, is actually 109 degrees (and that's assuming that the stick-on thermometer is correct), so obviously this is way too hot, dangerously hot, and is dehydrating him, and more serious is his Basking Spot Surface/Platform Temperature, which is going to naturally be much hotter than the Air Temperature around it...110 degrees is the highest any temperature should be inside a Bearded Dragon's tank, with anything over that for any length of time being potentially fatal.

If I'm wrong and you are using either a Digital Probe Thermometer or an Infrared Temperature Gun, and the 109 degrees is actually the Basking Spot Surface Temperature and not the Hot Side Ambient (air) Temperature, then I apologize, and we'll move on to what UVB light you have, because it is every bit as important as the temperature, albeit that the temperatures may be more urgent in this particular situation. This totally explains his behavior though, he'd be severely dehydrated, and possibly suffering from Heat Exhaustion.

If you don't already have one, you need to purchase a $10 Digital Probe Thermometer immediately, and then use the Probe to measure all 3 temperature zones (allowing the Probe to sit on each spot for at least 20-30 minutes before reading each temperature). In addition, you certainly do not need any type of nighttime heat source!!!!


Dragons come from the Australian Desert, which is not only Pitch-Black at night, but also very, very cool! 99% of people who own Beardies do not need any type of nighttime heat source for them at all, and they actually end up severely disrupting their sleep by adding one. As long as his tank stays at 65 degrees, which is where he'll be most comfortable at night to sleep, then he needs absolutely no nighttime heat source. Your house would have to be at 60 degrees or lower at night for his tank to fall below 65 degrees. And if by chance your house is colder than 60 degrees at night, then yes, you want to use a CHE at night instead of any type of night bulb because he can't have any type or color of light on at night, however you only want to bump his nighttime temperature up to between 65-70 degrees maximum so that he'll sleep comfortably, so you only need a very, very low wattage CHE, otherwise his nighttime temperature will be as hot as his daytime temperatures and that's going to disrupt his sleep. So having him at 80 degrees or above at night is too warm for him, and I'd turn off the CHE at night and let him be comfortable to sleep.

My main concern right now is getting his daytime tank temperatures straightened out, because if I'm correct he's far too hot and you need a lower wattage of bright-white colored Basking Bulb.

Click to expand...

Thank you for the reply... much appreciated!!!!


I have a ReptiSun UVB 5.0 light for her UVB light.

I actually do have a gun, and a stick on that I never trusted and a another stick on that is pretty consistent with the gun actually that has the humidity as well. I have that one near the top of the tank by her hammock. So I do trust that one. After taking a photo of her tank for you and photos of her as well, I gunned her whole tank for you... this is what I got. Hot side- 104 Middle-97 and the cool side ranges 85-88 those are daytime temps. Nighttime temps run around 85 with the ceramic and under tank heater on the warm side and 72 on the cool side (which is where she tends to hang out) we live in the basement and have to run a heat source since it gets to around 60 at night down here.

The basking spot temp where she chooses to bask is 104.6 with the lights raised where we have them currently. We had issues when we had 100 watt bulbs in them two weeks ago. We couldn’t heat the tank over 85 degrees with the lights on the tank, which we didn’t like. So we bought a under tank warmer, a gun, ceramic warmer, 150 watt basking, 150 watt ceramic, and a hanger to hang them to get them off the tank. We were very pleased right away with the temps rising higher because she was always cold previous to all of this.

We live in the basement and it gets cold. Do you suggest we let it go one night at see and gun the temps periodically? Maybe go with a 60 watt ceramic instead? I was told that at night a Juvie should have 85 degrees at night? I am so glad I joined this forum. I am going to be asking questions likes crazy. I need a mentor... I need to get her eating greens. Then vet I messaged tonight suggested baby food like a slurry tonight. Said most will take that and stop her bugs for now because this will hydrate her as well, and to give her 1/2 pedalyte baths as well?

She is walking like she is dragging her hind legs, but she is not impacted. She was impacted a couple weeks ago. She isn’t currently. She is really thin, and there is nothing to her right now. She is dehydrated for sure. She will drink her droplets for me with her conditioned water, but she just wants to sleep in my hair. She has eaten maybe 12 Dubia’s in 6 days, she did start a shed two days ago, I did read that does affect them as well. I have given her a couple of warm baths to help her shed as well. Which she loved.

Ok, you can read everything I wrote and reply back... I think my temps are pretty close for daytime... could it be the shed? Could it be the nighttime temps? I am willing to do whatever it takes for Khalessi. She has been out of her tank most of the day today.

Oh... she has had normal bowel movements. She had one loose one this week, which I thought was odd, but it was after we moved everything around in her tank, so I thought maybe she got stressed out. Otherwise, she was doing great, she was happy, I just couldn’t get her to eat any greens for the life of me... picky little girl. Thank you so much for your lengthy reply

Angela

Angela, your temps. are good everywhere except the cool side, which should be around 76-80. Night temps. around 70 are fine, a little higher or lower is fine.

Your problem is going to be the Reptisun 5.0 uvb....very little output from that bulb. Is it a coil or compact or a long tube ? You'll want to get a good bulb ASAP . The Reptisun 10.0 t5 or Arcadia D3 12% will provide much better uvb output. Without good uvb she can not absorb calcium even if it's offered in her diet . That will cause the lethargy + inability to move the legs, then deformities can start to develop.

BTW, did I miss the pictures ? None seem to be posted here yet.

AHBD":1hdy2qgh said:

No pics showed up yet.

Click to expand...

Beautiful set up and she's a real cutie. Just get the better lights ASAP and offer calcium powder on her meals, even if it's light dusting. You can offer a little extra calcium in some squash or sweet potato baby food or raw honey or even a few drops of unsweetened fruit juice.

BTW , the hammocks can be a bit hazardous since beardies can get their claws snagged in them. I'd remove it and just keep the nice basking log.

AHBD":3omo8xgj said:

Beautiful set up and she's a real cutie. Just get the better lights ASAP and offer calcium powder on her meals, even if it's light dusting. You can offer a little extra calcium in some squash or sweet potato baby food or raw honey or even a few drops of unsweetened fruit juice.

BTW , the hammocks can be a bit hazardous since beardies can get their claws snagged in them. I'd remove it and just keep the nice basking log.

Click to expand...

Hammock is removed. She did get stuck in it last week. I had to save her. I don’t think it was bad. I think I’m more concerned right now with her lack of moving those hind legs. She isn’t impacted. She is pooping just fine.

That's good that she's pooing regularly. Was she on calcium sand before the carpet ? It looks like her feet have an orange stain which usually comes from calcium sand. But right now the priority is to get the good uvb bulbs that I mentioned or she will not recover and will get worse. Also, can you post pics of the dubia roaches next to a dime ? If the insects are too large they can press on the spine which can affect the hind legs.

BTW, who did you get her from if you don't mind me asking ? You can p.m. me if you want.

AHBD":3schuuio said:

That's good that she's pooing regularly. Was she on calcium sand before the carpet ? It looks like her feet have an orange stain which usually comes from calcium sand. But right now the priority is to get the good uvb bulbs that I mentioned or she will not recover and will get worse. Also, can you post pics of the dubia roaches next to a dime ? If the insects are too large they can press on the spine which can affect the hind legs.

BTW, who did you get her from if you don't mind me asking ? You can p.m. me if you want.

Click to expand...

She was on calcium sand which the tank kit came with. It was in there for about a week, maybe close to four days. She got impacted once. But, that was because petsmart gave us one large cricket in with the crickets we got and it got in there before I caught it. I noticed she was impacted pretty fast and got her into warm water and she pooped so big and so much several times and was fine. She started moving around normally right after that.

I would have to find the card of the people imwe got her from and give you that information. I have no issues with that at all. If I picked a bad breeder that’s on me and get that information out there so more people don’t make the same mistake.

So update this morning. I kept her ceramic on but moved it as far up as it would go. Before I turned her lights on this morning it was 62 degrees. So my guess is she needs a light on at night? Without on she would be too cold? We sleep with two heated blankets on our bed at night and an electric heater in our room with the heat on as well. It’s also -29 currently in Minnesota lol. It’s cold.

She did move all night. Those hind legs aren’t moving. So she’s either impacted again, or so dehydrated she weak. I have a four hour appointment this morning so I have her water drops... and sprayed her down. I’m going to come home with some baby food and make her a slurry and give her a warm bath and stop bugs. What other suggestions besides the light? What should I get at Walmart for baby food? Anything specific? What bulb?

Baby food squash, sweet potato, green bean. The lights that are the most recommended because they provide good uvb [ which she desperately needs ] are the Reptisun 10.0 t5 [ it's more powerful than the t8 ] or the Arcadia D3 12%.

And if her temp. is that low with the CHE on, you can cover part of the tank with a heavy towel or small blanket, just be careful it's not too close to the CHE. A healthy baby could be fine at 62 but since she's not well it's better to have it warmer for her.

Okay, so temps are a bit high, the Cool Side Ambient must be no hotter than 80 degrees, this is important because she must always have a place to go to cool down. And at night, NO LIGHTS AT ALL, but if it's reading 62 degrees at night with nothing on, then all you need is a VERY, VERY LOW WATTAGE CHE, NOT A LIGHT, A CHE...like maybe 10 watts, 20 watts maximum placed over the spot she likes to sleep in. If it's already at 62 degrees with no nighttime heat source, then a 10-20 watt CHE should put her nighttime ambient temp between 70-75 degrees, no hotter, which is perfect.

Your main issue is that as AHBD already told you, your UVB light is totally inadequate for a Bearded Dragon, and this is what is causing the paralysis in her back end, not an impaction. If she at any Calcium Sand that will definitely cause impaction, but a 5.0 compact UVB bulb that is being obstructed by a mesh lid is giving her no UVB or UVA light at all. This is causing a severe calcium deficiency, other nutritional deficiencies such as a Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) deficiency, and resulting Metabolic Bone Disease (MBD). Without a strong, adequate/proper wavelength T5 strength UVB tube that is set up properly, a Bearded Dragon, being a desert reptile, cannot absorb ANY nutrition from the food that she eats or the the supplements you're giving her, she's just excreting all of the calcium and other minerals/vitamins that she takes in. This is why she is not gaining weight, losing appetite, etc.

She needs a strong, long T5 strength UVB tube that is at least a 10% UVB tube (10.0, not 5.0 or lower) mounted within at least 11" of her basking spot, and that is turned on for at least 13-14 hours every single day, along with her bright-white basking bulb. They should both be right alongside each other, over the Hot Side of the tank, with her basking spot/platform directly underneath both lights, so she gets both lights while basking. This is replicating natural sunlight as closely as possible over her tank.

It's sometimes very difficult to find a T5 strength UVB tube or fixture for it in pet shops, as most pet shops, including all Petco and PetSmart stores, only carry the much weaker T8 strength UVB tubes, which unfortunately require a special, close set-up over the Hot Side of the tank. The T8 version of the Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube, usually found in pet shops in the 18" length, must be strapped to the underside of the mesh lid so it's not being blocked (by 40%) by the mesh lid, and the basking spot/platform must be within at least 6" of the unobstructed T8 UVB tube. In addition, you have to replace T8 UVB tubes once every 6 months at a maximum age, as they have a very fast UVB decay rate, and they stop emitting all UVB light at 6 months old.

In contrast, if you buy the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube, or the Arcadia 12% T5 UVB tube, both of which are the choice of most all experienced Dragon owners and breeders, you can set these on top of the mesh lid because they are strong enough to still emit adequate UVB and UVA light to your dragon on the other side of the mesh. Also, they must only be mounted within at least 11" of his basking spot/platform, so that gives you a little more leeway in the height of the tank. And, the T5 strength UVB tubes must only be replaced once every 10-12 months, as they have a much slower UVB decay rate than the T8 UVB tubes.

Amazon.com is by far the cheapest place to order either a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube ($24) or a 24" Arcadia 12% T5 UVB tube ($35 I believe) and a matching 24" T5-rated tube fixture with a Metal Reflector included with it (very important to reflect adequate UVB light throughout his tank). You can buy both a 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube and a 24" T5 tube fixture with a metal reflector included for around $50 or so shipped from Amazon.com...in contrast, if you were to buy a much weaker, shorter 18" Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube in Petco or Petsmart, just this tube has a retail of $37.00 in stores. And honestly I always recommend just skipping the weaker T8 version for dragons, but especially in this situation where your dragon has already lost the movement of his backend.

He's still very young, and if you get one of these two high-quality, strong, T5 strength UVB tubes over his for at least 13-14 hours a day ASAP (either the Reptisun 10.0 T5HO or the Arcadia 12% T5, neither of these tubes emit any harmful light rays as a byproduct of the manufacturing process, unlike the brands All Living Things, Zilla, and ReptileOne), and you start dusting all of his live insects from one of his daily live feeding sessions in a calcium powder every day, and a multivitamin powder 3 days of the week, he should be able to recover, hopefully fully. The key is getting him under the proper, strong UVB/UVA light immediately, and get his calcium deficiency stopped, his bone density strengthened, and the body weakness reversed. Actually, you should notice his appetite increase within a day or two of being under a T5 UVB tube. A dragon his age should be eating between 40-60 appropriately sized live insects every day, on average, (smaller than the space between his eyes always), so he definitely needs to get under a proper UVB tube ASAP.

AHBD":19l2r563 said:

Baby food squash, sweet potato, green bean. The lights that are the most recommended because they provide good uvb [ which she desperately needs ] are the Reptisun 10.0 t5 [ it's more powerful than the t8 ] or the Arcadia D3 12%.

And if her temp. is that low with the CHE on, you can cover part of the tank with a heavy towel or small blanket, just be careful it's not too close to the CHE. A healthy baby could be fine at 62 but since she's not well it's better to have it warmer for her.

Click to expand...

Do we think this is a sign? I removed the mesh and placed her on the top... she sprouted up as far as she can. I’ve had her there now for about an hour and she has popped up farther and farther.