Yellow skin disease and reducing risk of exposure

[court]

So Ok it's been some time since I've been here. Loki passed away on the 9th of July he was exposed to canv aka Yellow skin disease/fungus by the Vet we WERE emphasis on WERE using and Lori caught it too so. we have her on an Anti Nausea,Antibiotic,and Anti Fungal medication oral thank god not shots like poor Loki had to endure. So tonight I was in a hurry and tired and not thinking straight went to feed Lionel whom I got last Saturday and did not wash my hands after handling her once it dawned on me of my Mistake I gave him a thorough bath with soap and everything removed literally everything in his tank including bedding and washed him a second time so my question is two fold 1. did I do a good enough job that he won't catch what she has??? and 2. what is the best procedures to follow aside from hand washing to prevent exposure??? Also Lionel is at my Mother's house Lori is here in our Trailer so no exposure to airborne spores.

 

[CooperDragon]

The antibiotics may be counter effective in treating a fungal infection. I would stick with Voriconizole or similar anti-fungal as well as a topical anti-fungal treatment. I would sanitize everything as well as you can on a regular basis and do your best to remember to wash your hands well between handling. I would definitely recommend picking up some F10SC to use to disinfect surfaces. A concentrated 3.4oz bottle should last for quite a while when mixed at 1:250 with water. For YF treatment you may even want to increase the concentration to as high as 1:100 with water.

 

[EllenD]

Thanks Cooper for saying what you said, because the very first thing I thought after reading his post was "Why in the world did a vet put a beardie that has Yellow Fungus on antibiotics?" That's not only unnecessary (unless he also has a bacterial infection of some kind in addition to the Yellow Fungus), but it's very counterproductive to successfully treating and trying to cure the Yellow Fungus!!!

Yellow Fungus is obviously caused by a fungal infection, it's extremely difficult to successfully treat and completely get rid of because it's a systemic fungal infection, not just an external, topical fungal infection. So that's why experienced reptile vets put beardies who are diagnosed with Yellow Fungus on very strong oral and sometimes injectable antifungal medications in conjunction with topical antifungal scrubs/antiseptics and creams/ointments. However, if your beardie was diagnosed with Yellow Fungus and was put on both oral and topical antifungal medications as well as antibiotics at the same time, the antibiotics are most likely going to completely negate the effectiveness of the antifungal medications she's taking, depending on what antibiotics she's on.

The body of a bearded dragon always has certain strains of bacteria living on their external skin, scales, etc. as well as all along the inside of their gastrointestinal tracts, from their mouths down their throats into their stomachs and so on. This "healthy" or "normal" bacteria is always living on and inside their bodies (whenever a Bearded Dragon is healthy and their body is in stasis) and is not in high enough counts to cause any actual infections or illnesses. One of the main purposes of this "normal" or "healthy" bacteria on and inside a bearded dragon is to keep fungi in check, or to keep fungi from growing into large enough counts to cause localized external fungal infections, localized internal fungal infections, and widespread, systemic fungal infections, like Yellow Fungus does, which is why it's extremely hard to irradicate.

So if your beardie has an active Yellow Fungus infection and is being treated with both oral and topical antifungal meds along with antibiotics (for some reason, I have no idea why), if the antibiotics she's on are effective against the "normal" or "healthy" bacteria that lives on and inside her body and that she needs in order to help keep the Yellow Fungus from spreading, then the antibiotics can actually kill off all of her "healthy" bacteria, allowing the fungal infection to spread out of control. Usually vets prescribe Broad-spectrum antibiotics, meaning they are effective in killing many different types of bacteria, so most likely the antibiotics your beardie is on are actually hurting her and keeping the antifungal medications she's on from being effective.

Sorry I went through all of that, but I wanted you to understand why we are both confused by why a veterinarian would give antibiotics to a bearded dragon diagnosed with Yellow Fungus...Even if your beardie does have some kind of bacterial infection on top of the Yellow Fungus infection, which I doubt because you didn't mention it, there are very specific and special steps that need to be taken in order for the antibiotics to not interfere with treating the Yellow Fungus infection, which is by far the more serious and severe problem. They also wouldn't prescribe a broad-spectrum antibiotic, they would most likely do a culture and sensitivity to diagnose the exact bacterial strain that is causing the bacterial infection, and to determine what specific, narrow-spectrum antibiotic would treat the bacteria.

I doubt your beardie is being treated for a bacterial infection, I have heard of veterinarians (and sadly some human medical doctors) prescribing antibiotics for fungal infections, as well as other really counterproductive treatments, but Yellow Fungus is so aggressive and difficult to successfully treat to begin with that this might be a horrible decision for the vet to have made.

Also, Yellow Fungus is extremely contagious, I'm sure you know this. Cooper already gave you excellent advice as to disinfecting everything inside and out, washing your hands after handling either dragon, and what to use as a disinfectant (F10 is best). You may very well have infected your other dragon if you handled the one that has Yellow Fungus and then handled him without washing your hands with a good disinfecting soap, Yellow Fungus is an extremely nasty disease that spreads like wildfire. Hopefully your healthy dragon did not contract the Yellow Fungus, you did the correct thing by bathing him, but you need to keep a very close eye on him, you know what the signs and symptoms of Yellow Fungus are, so the minute you see anything on him that looks like it might be Yellow Fungus you need to take him for a skin scraping test. Hopefully you won't have to do this though.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, and I'm sorry you already lost one beardie. Yellow Fungus is such a horrible disease and is just so aggressive, I wish someone would work on developing an effective cure sometime soon...

 

[court]

Thank you Cooper and EllenD I really appreciate it so much. So since Lionel may or may not have been exposed could I beat that fungal death by preemptively giving him the Anti fungal medication??? Also We're going to immediately discontinue the Antibacterial with her altogether. the Anti fungal mentioned is it commercially available or would I need a Vet to get it. and assuming that is available what would the dosage be she has currently been given Itraconazole at .25 or would the one suggested be better Lori is our Little girl she's not just a lizard by any stretch and I know ya'll understand exactly where I'm coming from on that..........as for the topical recommendations??? frequencies of application and where would I obtain it proper dosages if needed etc. I lost my Best friend Loki I don't want to lose her too

 

[CooperDragon]

I think Itraconazole is similar to Voriconazole so I'd keep with that. I know the Voriconazole has to be prescribed and mixed by one of the compounding pharmacies like Diamondback Drugs but that's no big deal, they'll ship it right to you. Dosage varies by weight so I'd double check with the vet.

As for topical, there are a lot of options. I'd apply a couple of times per day but if there aren't any visible signs yet I'm not sure where I'd apply it. For now you might be better off spraying Lionel with F10SC or a solution of Providone Iodine to try and get a coating all over his skin. If he has been exposed it is being treated early so that's encouraging.

The combination of good oral antifungal meds and regular topical treatment seems to be effective against YF if caught early from what I've seen so stay hopeful.

 

[court]

I think Itraconazole is similar to Voriconazole so I'd keep with that. I know the Voriconazole has to be prescribed and mixed by one of the compounding pharmacies like Diamondback Drugs but that's no big deal, they'll ship it right to you. Dosage varies by weight so I'd double check with the vet.

As for topical, there are a lot of options. I'd apply a couple of times per day but if there aren't any visible signs yet I'm not sure where I'd apply it. For now you might be better off spraying Lionel with F10SC or a solution of Providone Iodine to try and get a coating all over his skin. If he has been exposed it is being treated early so that's encouraging.

The combination of good oral antifungal meds and regular topical treatment seems to be effective against YF if caught early from what I've seen so stay hopeful.

Well after reading what both of you said I researched the Voriconazole and in the tests they ran in 27-47 days the infection was cleared but the difference is that 2 in 7 died from the Itranconazole and only 1 in 7 died from the Voriconazole so it's safer is my take away from that. this F105C whee can I obtain it??? does it need to be diluted before misting him with it???

Edited to add: this is the article I mentioned pertaining to Itraconazole Vs. Voriconazole https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20370369

 

[CooperDragon]

If you want to go with Voriconizole, your vet can make a prescription and request it from Diamondback Drugs in Arizona. Wedgewood in New Jersey may be able to make it too. It's usually prescribed in month long amounts and may take a few months to be effective (that will vary).

Here is the F10SC. https://beanfarm.com/products/f10sc-veterinary-disinfectant-200-ml-6-8-oz?variant=24905407113 I'd mix it a bit strong at maybe 1:200 and maybe up it to 1:100 if that doesn't seem to be doing the trick after a while. I wouldn't use it at a higher concentration than that though because while it's safe when diluted it can be nasty in it's concentrated form.

 

[court]

Cooper we got some says Povidone and iodine for her hand what ratio should it be mixed at and will it make her sick if she ingests it???? this is for Lori Girl

 

[CooperDragon]

It's usually suggested to mix it so it looks like a weak tea. I don't know the exact ratios or concentrations beyond that. It's yellow and will discolor water quickly. You can use this as a bath or you could possibly mix it in a spray bottle and spray the skin with it. It should not be ingested however. It is typically used to disinfect wounds.