Worried that ive made a huge mistake with UVB lights

[Shawnt0012]

Ive had this beardie for about 2 months. It was never eating 20-50 crickets a day, more like 15 but I fed it once a day, with some kale or collard greens here or there. Then, I started to do some research and started feeding it as many crickets as i could give him and he never ate as many as i would like him to.

Then I started noticing some slight changes in the way he was acting, he was also shedding for the first time at this point so i thought him not even eating 10 crickets had something to do with that. and after i did some more digging i found out that my problem was most likely the UVB light that i had, which was a 5.0 compact fluorescent bulb that came with the kit i got. I had the 5.0 UVB light for the 2 months ive had the beardie, He had the side effects of UVB deprivation such as lack of appetite, stunt in growth, not as active, and he would twitch. (not super serious like the ones I saw at PetLand, but noticeable) and dont even get me started on petland .. but anyway, once i made those connections i started to freak out and i went out and bought the zoo med reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb. The new UVB has been on his tank for about 30 mins now and i was wondering if i need to take him to the vet? will the greater amount of UVB that hes not used to fix him? He was around 5-6 inches when i got him 2 moths ago, Acouple days after christmas and hes 8 inches now. Basking spot is just about 100 degrees, i put calcium powder on his crickets etc. I pray that the new light will get him up and running again to grow up and be a big, fat, healthy beardie. Thanks in advance if anyone can help!!

 

[Shawnt0012]

Ive had this beardie for about 2 months. It was never eating 20-50 crickets a day, more like 15 but I fed it once a day, with some kale or collard greens here or there. Then, I started to do some research and started feeding it as many crickets as i could give him and he never ate as many as i would like him to.

Then I started noticing some slight changes in the way he was acting, he was also shedding for the first time at this point so i thought him not even eating 10 crickets had something to do with that. and after i did some more digging i found out that my problem was most likely the UVB light that i had, which was a 5.0 compact fluorescent bulb that came with the kit i got. I had the 5.0 UVB light for the 2 months ive had the beardie, He had the side effects of UVB deprivation such as lack of appetite, stunt in growth, not as active, and he would twitch. (not super serious like the ones I saw at PetLand, but noticeable) and dont even get me started on petland .. but anyway, once i made those connections i started to freak out and i went out and bought the zoo med reptisun 10.0 UVB bulb. The new UVB has been on his tank for about 30 mins now and i was wondering if i need to take him to the vet? will the greater amount of UVB that hes not used to fix him? He was around 5-6 inches when i got him 2 moths ago, Acouple days after christmas and hes 8 inches now. Basking spot is just about 100 degrees, i put calcium powder on his crickets etc. I pray that the new light will get him up and running again to grow up and be a big, fat, healthy beardie. Thanks in advance if anyone can help!!

 

[Shawnt0012]

i had this beardie for about 2 months. 5-6 inches when i got him, 8 inches now. I had a 5.0 uvb light for 2 months till today. He was eating less, and growing less, lazy, sometimes would twitch. today i got a 10.0 reptisun uvb. if any damage was done, or in the process will the higher uvb fix this?

 

[kingofnobbys]

Common mistake.

You likely got bad advise from the petshop on the needs of bearded dragons.

The important thing is you have discovered the mistake and corrected it.

What size crickets are you using as your feeders ?

(often you'll see claims of hatchlings eating 50, 60, even 100 crickets per day .... these are most likely guesses by the keeper and they using ultra small crickets (even pin heads) .
Bumping up to a more appropriate size cricket for the size of their beardie, they find the hatchling might polish off 20 - 30 crickets per day spread out over 2 or 3 live feedings + some greens (maybe).

No need to take him to the vet , just make sure the lights are on for at least 14 - 15 hr per day to allow him to get plenty of time to bask and soak those UVA and UVB rays. (Even if he disappears into his hide mid avo for a siesta , leave the lights on the full period).

 

[Shawnt0012]

The crickets I am giving, the petshop calls them mediums. probably about a half inch. decent size. Hes also shedding right now. I dust the mediums with repticalcium white powder and ill try to feed him as much as possible now. Ill throw some kale in there dusted with the calcium as well. I didn't take into consideration the fact that these people are feeding much smaller crickets. Probably just paranoid but still noticed some problems related to UVB. Difference is night and day between the 5.0 coil light I had and the 10.0 tube light I have now. Anything to keep the newest member of the family happy and healthy.

 

[Vh621]

Pet shops will usually sell them as larger than what a breeder might consider them to be. For instance I was at petco the other day and the dubias they were selling as mediums were about 3/8in, which is typically what many breeders would consider small. Just something to keep in mind. Also I just want to add it took my beardie about two months to actually start eating more dubias. She would only eat about 12 a day at first also. I made the same mistake with the bulb, I had the same one as you, she had it for three weeks but when I changed it, nothing changed, it still took about another month for her to start pigging out. Then she started eating anywhere from 25-35 roaches a sitting.

 

[kingofnobbys]

The crickets I am giving, the petshop calls them mediums. probably about a half inch. decent size. Hes also shedding right now. I dust the mediums with repticalcium white powder and ill try to feed him as much as possible now. Ill throw some kale in there dusted with the calcium as well. I didn't take into consideration the fact that these people are feeding much smaller crickets. Probably just paranoid but still noticed some problems related to UVB. Difference is night and day between the 5.0 coil light I had and the 10.0 tube light I have now. Anything to keep the newest member of the family happy and healthy.

Crickets : so long as they are shorter than the space between his eyes he'll be fine.

At 3 months old I was giving Peppa (who was 61g) and Toothless (who was 51g) were on two live feeds per day, am was 20 medium (1/3 sized circkets) each and 2 medium sized (2inch long) silkworms in pm each + greens and grated veg.


Lighting (UV coil verses tube).
The 5% UVB coil will have produced a focused beam of UVA , UVB and light, was it a 26W coil and how far from the basking spot ? (is the new 10% tube it a T8 or T5 ? how far away , ontop of a screen or under the lid ? )
The new tube will produce more UVA and UVB as well as more light, spread out over more the tank, but still somewhat focused under the tube (even more so if you have a reflector behind the tube -recommended).

Likely your hatchling is currently a bit VitD deficient but this will improve now you have a 10% UVB tube. Will take a few weeks for the vitD levels to get up to a healthy long term level , and I expect no permanent damage has likely been done.

If you want to boost the VitD levels faster, it might be helpful to give the hatchling a dialy dose of liquid calcium orally by syringe - I've used a product called CalciVet (designed for birds but works just as well for lizards - was recommended / prescribed by my vet for one of my rescued wild skinks (Lucky) and he loved the taste of it .
If you start giving liquid calcium (you need to dose by the lizard's weight) and my advise from the vet was to continue dusting the crickets (since calcium powder dusting in very patchy and the dose of calcium per insect in the dusting is hard to regulate).

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I think he should be just fine! It sounds like you caught it in time for it to reverse.
Can he walk & climb normally?
How is your Reptisun 10 tube bulb mounted, inside of his tank or on top of the tank? How close is he to it?
Be sure to put calcium powder on his insects once daily, 5 times per week. Since his twitching is minimal I feel you can put a halt to it. He will most likely start to improve pretty quickly for you.
Do you have any pictures of him & the tank setup?
Are you using a digital probe or temp gun to measure the temperatures?
You can hold off going to the vet for a bit to see how he improves, for now unless you see physical signs like kinking of the tail, a hump on his spine, etc.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Drache613]

Merged both topics by Moderator

 

[Shawnt0012]

Its been less than 24 hours since i got the new light and hes doing great. I came home from school, dusted 12 medium sized crickets and he ate every single one of them with no problems, whereas the day before id be lucky to get him to eat 3 in one sitting. And as far as kink in the tail, only subtle problems in the tail is on very tip of it and it just seems as if its almost bent. Nowhere near half of it, maybe a centimeter, if that. He climbs up on his branch just fine, and the UVB is ontop of a metal mesh screen. the hole to metal ratio is not to the point where id be worried about it blocking UVB, and i put him on my desk infront of my front window with the blinds open so he can get some natural light as well. As far as the twitching goes, it wasnt really anything like what i saw from videos on youtube, or the ones at petland for UVB deprivation. Runs, walks, sleeps, eats, and climbs normal. Very calm when i hold him. I think hes going to be okay and im glad I caught onto his symptoms as early as I did. Hes in a 20 gallon tank, UVB is about 10 inches away from the highest point in the basking spot. In aouple months im going to get a 55 gallon tank, with new carpet and some more objects for him to play and climb on. Thanks everyone for the replies and concerns!!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is wonderful you have already seen some drastic improvements with him then!
It is a great sign that his appetite has already increased, too. Continue with the daily calcium dustings like that & it should help out a lot with his new light also.
I am glad he doesn't have any trouble climbing then, hopefully you have caught it in time before it started affecting his bones in any way.
So the screen top has wide mesh? The mesh does block out some of the UVB though. So you might consider placing it underneath of the screen top if you get a chance so he can get within 6-8 inches from it. At 10 inches that isn't too bad. Does the light fixture have reflective backing on it?
It sounds like he is going to be just fine & loves to be held too.
I am sure he will love a tank upgrade also.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[SHBailey]

One other thing that maybe should be mentioned is that the UV in sunlight doesn't get through glass, so if the blinds are open but the window is closed, he's actually better off with his Reptisun 10, unless it's warm enough to take him outside. In that case, natural sunlight is great as long as being outside doesn't stress him out.

Glad to hear that the light made such a big difference
Those kits they sell at the pet stores are notorious for having all the wrong stuff

 

[Shawnt0012]

When the blinds are open i also have his UVB light on, i never expected him to get UV ways through this. Its more just so he can get some natural light and sit in some natural light. Hes starting to get thicker in the legs and base of his tail and i can see some differences in his eyes, more full of color and much more responsive to movement. Ive been putting some kale and small amounts of baby carrots (Not even half of a baby carrot) because I know A vitamin A overdose is possible. Hes eating much more veggies and im going to go out and buy some more crickets today. I will upload some pictures of him, and his tank setup. For the floor im using paper towels because he was shedding, and he poops alot so every other day i can easily switch it out. Im going with a reptile carpet once i upgrade him in a bigger tank. One question though, what should i use for his drinking water? Should i use some room temp water from a waterbottle or is faucet water fine? I live in a good area so anything bad in the water shouldnt be an issue but i dont want to risk anything. Once again thanks so much for the advice and concerns. He seems like a much happier Beardie than ever before with this new location and UVB light. But he still and always has had these what i think are stress marks on his stomach, it almost looks like circles outlined in black lines. If this is normal then oh well, but if theres anything i can do to make him less stressed im open to any advice. Thanks and have a great day!

 

[SHBailey]

Nothing wrong with that if he enjoys looking out the window. Sounds like he's doing really well

I don't have to worry about my beardie getting too much Vitamin A from eating too many carrots because he doesn't really like them all that much and almost never even eats them at all :roll:

I use paper towels on the bottom of my beardie's tank all the time. Makes it really easy to see when there's a poop and really easy to clean it up.

If you have really good tap water it's probably ok to use it for your beardie's water dish, but others may recommend bottled water. I use tap water because my reptile vet told me that we don't have to worry about the city water in Anchorage, but our beardie almost never drinks water out of his dish anyway. We also dribble it on his nose when we give him a bath, and serve his veggies with water on them as well (also helps keep them fresh a little longer) just to keep him hydrated. If yours drinks water out of his water dish, count yourself lucky. Most of them don't, and keeping them adequately hydrated can be a problem for some.

"Stress marks" are misnamed -- they don't necessarily have anything to do with stress. The name seems to cause more stress for bearded dragon caretakers than it indicates in the beardies themselves :?

 

[Shawnt0012]

Hello and thanks to everyone that has responded. I am going to figure out how to upload some pics of my little guy to show how much hes improved!!