Will he grow again?

[MikeN]

Vicky,

I just gave Leo a bath and massaged his belly while doing so. The problem is he absolutely hates bathing; it never lasts more than 10 minutes and is mostly him trying to jump out. I also checked the temps and they are pretty much the same as they were with his old lamps - 96.5 on top of his favorite log and 88.2 under the tree, which are really the only two places he goes to. The only difference is the light is now an MLB and as you can see from this updated photo, is approximately 12 inches from him, so I take it he is getting a lot of UVB... He was de-wormed by a knowledgeable vet in August and early September (took two visits), and his stools looked good since then.

My desk is next to his tank and the light makes me squint too, it feels as if it's too much, but since his distance from it is 12 inches or more, I assume it must be the norm for beardies?

 

[vickson420]

Mike
Weight wise he looks great and so do his colors.Can he close his mouth correctly?The second pic looks like his jaw may be a little soft which is a sign of MBD.As for his eyes I am thinking its a response from the coil uvb as this is one of the things they are notorious for.Was he doing this before?It may be necessary to turn off the UVB for a few days to allow his eyes to heal a bit but answer the question about his mouth for me first,ok?

 

[MikeN]

Vicky,

Yes, he can close his mouth just fine, but does sit gaping or with his tongue sticking out a little quite often. It looks more like he "loses control" of it when sleeping or relaxing. His lower jaw is actually straight, but his upper one curves up as if he's smiling, so I'm guessing it may require him a bit of extra effort to close his mouth fully? Oh, and his lower jaw also seems a bit longer too.

You know, I do not remember him squinting as much before. Well, maybe when he first got his other fixture.. but then he got used to it. He fell asleep a couple hours before his normal time last night, so it appears more that he is literally sleeping, and not just squinting at the lights.

 

[vickson420]

Ok thats what I was thinking.Elongated or mishapen jaw is generally a sign of MBD.I am very glad you got the MVB because this will help with that.I would also make sure you give him calcium at least 5xper week.It would also be a good idea to get him to the vet for a calcium injection as well.He may even give you some liquid calcium to take home.As for his eyes, it may be a good idea to turn off the uvb for a day or so (no more then 2)to give his eyes some healing time just to be safe but if you really think its just him sleeping then you dont have to.I would definately force the baths on him daily right now.I know you said he doesnt like it but if he is impacted he really needs it and it looks like he may have a few things going on so you really want to give him alot of supportive care right now.

 

[MikeN]

Ok Vicky, I'll be watching him and post updates. I can tell though that he is not really feeling bad - as he just spent almost an hour running and playing on our bed upstairs. But check this pic for the epitome of his latest behavior - I just came back from the store to find him literally hiding on the opposite side of the tree! The flash makes it look as there is light, yet it is pretty dark where he's sitting now. He is not sleeping and his mouth is shut tight and he's moving a little trying to burrow himself deeper into the space between the tree and the tank glass.

 

[lilStewie]

Not really related to any of your questions... I know you needed to do something fast, but in the future definately purchase your lights online. The powersun for $80 can easily be found online for half that price. I recently found myself in that predicament and I felt like I was used. Ha ha...much much much cheaper to go online when it is not an emergency.

 

[MikeN]

Ok, now I am really concerned. Leo's been keeping his right eye shut most of the time, which is what I first thought was "squinting". The eye doesn't really look any different, maybe a bit darker than the other one? I can't tell for sure, but I returned his old light fixture back for now.

Edit: now he's just outright sleeping with both his eyes shut and hanging between his log and the tree . I guess this is it, he fell asleep and my only concern right now should be making him poop...

Edit 2: We pooped! But do not want to eat and are sleeping pretty much all the time...

 

[vickson420]

Ok good that he pooped thats one problem down.You said you switched back his old fixtures?You didnt reconnect the old uvb did you?If his eyes are damaged(which I think they may be)you need to leave that uvb off for a few days and then go back to using the powersun but do not use the coil uvb again,ok?

 

[MikeN]

Vicky,

I am currently only using one plain 40-watt bulb in the old fixture plus the old linear 3.0 UVB bulb. It's pretty dark in the tank, but Leo is definitely keeping his right eye shut pretty much all the time, and opens and closes his left eye more often.

 

[vickson420]

Ok while the 3.0 isnt much I would use no uvb.Its not the brightness,you can add other non uvb bulbs to add for brightness its the actually uv emissions that are causing the issues.Are your temps ok with only a 40watt heat bulb?

 

[MikeN]

Yes, they are pretty much the same regardless, as I am using that stick-on pad again. Believe it or not, I just returned both the dome and the Powersun to Petco and am thinking of buying the reptileuv MLB... The dome I bought originally was too deep and therefore too focused, which may have contributed to this eye problem. I now have a simple Fluker's 10" dome, just need the bulb. Also, the cashier told me there are eye drops for beardies (?) for this exact situation, but I didn't see any at the store. Anything that you know of? Also - getting back to my original question that started all this - will Leo be able to grow again once he's out of brumation, given his size and age?

 

[vickson420]

Yes, they are pretty much the same regardless, as I am using that stick-on pad again. Believe it or not, I just returned both the dome and the Powersun to Petco and am thinking of buying the reptileuv MLB... The dome I bought originally was too deep and therefore too focused, which may have contributed to this eye problem. I now have a simple Fluker's 10" dome, just need the bulb. Also, the cashier told me there are eye drops for beardies (?) for this exact situation, but I didn't see any at the store. Anything that you know of? Also - getting back to my original question that started all this - will Leo be able to grow again once he's out of brumation, given his size and age?

Ok good on the temps.So you returned the bulb aand the dome?Well the megaray is a much better bulb only problem is the 10 inch dome isnt really going to work with it because the megaray is a much bigger bulb and really does need the deep dome if your going to rest it on the screen.The powersun didnt cause the eye issue trust me on this,the eye issue is a thing called photokeratitis which is cause by coil uvb.What happens is their eyes become fixed and cant dialate correctly because of the light frequency these bulbs give off which then allows way too much uvb rays to enter their eyes causing further damage.The reason why you didnt see it before is because your uvb bulbs were no longer emitting decent uvb so his eyes were not getting as irritated.This would have happened no matter which uvb or MVB you chose.I am sorry because I feel partly responsible for not telling you to leave him uvb free for a few days but I didnt realize his eyes were affected by them.You are still better off getting the megaray especially because as I said there are signs of MBD already and there is no better bulb for this and for growth then a Megaray.To answer your original question he can still grow up until 18 months of age and yes there room for growth in him once he is healthy.BTW I wouldnt say he is brumation because I think this lethargy is a result of lack of enough UVB,I have a feeling once his eyes are better and you get the megaray on his he may bounce right out of this.

 

[diamc]

Hi, I just read this thread and I have to say that I totally agree with Vicky that the eye issues and the lack of growth is from not getting enough ultraviolet rays from a good bulb. Ordering a Megaray or T-Rex on line sounds like the best thing to do. I don't feel that this is brumation either because otherwise he would be staying way over on the cool side, not near the lights at all. He also wouldn't have been running around on your bed like he was doing.

It does look like he has MBD by looking at his mouth so a good UVB would keep that from getting any worse & may even help improve it some. You mentioned that he hates getting a bath. Are you putting a washcloth or small towel down in the bottom of the sink or container to keep him from sliding around so that he feels more secure? Is the water temp warm tested by the inside of your wrist? Do you add enough water to cover his front legs & add warm water as it starts to cool? Putting your hand in with him also helps to relax them.

Vicky has given you great info and has shared her wealth of knowledge with you.

 

[MikeN]

Hi, well, I did order a Megaray today and you know, I just can't fully agree with either the lack of growth (as he grew very fast and gained 10 inches and a lot of weight for the first 6 months that I had him) or the jaw issue as he's been keeping his mouth shut most of the time and the gaping seen in the photo constitutes itself much less frequently than the normal behavior. I do agree with the eye problem and will do everything to help Leo as he's really my pride and joy...
As for bathing, yes, and yes and yes. I've been reading this forum and other sources since the day I got Leo and have been careful to check the temp with my wrist, keep a cloth i the sink and making sure he feels safe. He's had nothing but outmost attention his whole life with us and a good vet to top it off.
I do however appreciate all the wealth of information I've been getting here and am really glad I've been getting so much response from Vicky. I will continue watching Leo's progress through this and keep it posted here hoping it may help others in this situation as it seems that there have been a lot of posts from owners having the same concerns I am going through.

 

[vickson420]

Great that you ordered the megaray, you will definately get some positive results from that.Which one did you order?I hope the 100 watt SB?As for the MBD I hope I am wrong I really do and its not the fact that his mouth was open but the elongation of his lower jaw and the top looks a bit misaligned thats what worried me but the Megaray and proper calcium will hopefully fix it IF there is an issue.I am fairly certain its not brumation so lets see wat happens there and I do appreciate you keeping us posted on this and your right the thread will help you and hopefully others as well.