wild caught hornworms(tomato worms)

[Moltenhart]

Hello I live in colorado and I have seen hornworms used for feeding. I also have seen people say that wild ones are toxic and different than ones raised as feeders. I have saved my tomato plants from two hornworms today and would love to give one to my beardie and one to my frilled dragon, but not being sure I wanted to check if there is a difference. any knowledge on the subject would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Tom

 

[fresnowitte]

Hi Tom! :wave:

Hornworms raised for feeders are not fed tomato plants...the worm that eats the tomato plant is toxic to your beardie.

I suggested to never feed any wild caught bugs to your beardies they may be carrying parasites or ingested or tramped thru pesticides.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

What Barb said x 2

 

[Twobeardieguy]

Yup bump on that as well!!

 

[zebraflavencs]

I must add my vote to be 3. It isn't a good idea to feed from the "wild" so to speak, for all the reasons stated above.
Janie.

 

[prickly]

I have caught on as well-
what makes these toxic?
i know people discourage wild caught insects-but if you are sure they have had no contamination by pesticides or chemicals- what is the danger?
Can i feed the HW something else for a while and it will be safe?
any ideas?
why are wildcaught insects so taboo?

 

[fresnowitte]

But tell me how can you be sure they have had no contact with any chemicals or pesticides? Just because you don't use any pesticides in your yard for instance an you find the bugs there that doesn't mean they didn't come from your neighbor's yard originally which may use pesticides.
Also how do you know that these wild bugs are not ridden with parasites themselves?
Hmmm....and just what have they been gutloaded with? What will your beardie really be eating?

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

From what I understand the tomatoe plant itself is what make the wild hornworms toxic. Not to mention any chemical or fertilizer in the soil. There are several types of bugs toxic to beardies. Wild hornworms, lightning bugs (fireflies), ladybugs, and im sure many other diff types. Hope this answers you a bit better.

 

[prickly]

But tell me how can you be sure they have had no contact with any chemicals or pesticides? Just because you don't use any pesticides in your yard for instance an you find the bugs there that doesn't mean they didn't come from your neighbor's yard originally which may use pesticides.
Also how do you know that these wild bugs are not ridden with parasites themselves?
Hmmm....and just what have they been gutloaded with? What will your beardie really be eating?

I do get your point and appreaciate all the info and guidance given here, it's just that I have to question things to learn you know-
I don't know that they have never had contact with any chemical, I just know I live on 30 acres with no gardens around, and the nearest neighbor is 1 and 1/2 miles away-
I know they are a larva, and so they must have come from a cacoon fairly close, as they can't fly, and are slow.
I have found about eight this year, and one I kept and fed trimmings to see what kinda moth it was-
it was intereseting- I really think this insect came from the forrest behind my house, and found my tomatoes-
but you are right in that I don't know for sure- But I figure there was a method to ensure it was safe, like keeping it for a certain time feeding it a specific diet to ensure the digestive tract is properly flushed and filled with a non-toxic, even benficial plant matter, like greens- I just wanted to give him a treat, but I won't risk his health if others have had problems-I am probably wrong...does anyone have a link to someone's bad exp?

I really question some of the insect I feed that are captive raised-
I almost think alot of natural insect would have more nutrients- and I question the keeping and maintanence of some insect feeders- I had gotten alot of crickets from pet stores where the conditions were sub par- looking hazardous to me, with dead insects and feces in layers- I wonder about bacterial infections and parasites- i found alot of catapillars and some odd looking worms in w/ my crickets at one small pet store, so I changed to a bigger chain store.
But I guess the odds are better with CB feeders- especially if you can find a reliable source- Which i hope to have with premiumcrickets as i just placed my first order.

 

[TheWolfmanTom]

I have used Mike at premium crickets for years. Right now I get 15 thousand a week from him. If you want to see if his feeders are good check out my site. All the poopers on there have eaten his stock for years...lol

 

[Twobeardieguy]

I also back up Tom on that and them!!!

 

[prickly]

yeah- Mike was very helpful and I feel like I will be pleased w/ my order-
thanks for the input everyone


:bikerwave:

 

[vickson420]

I have to agree with everyone else here.In the case of wild horns it isnt the pesticide that is the issue.Wild horns eat tomatoes.Tomatoes are actually toxic to not only beardies but all reptiles because they contain an alkaloid called tomatine that interferes with cholinergic nerves and cause some serious gastrointestinal distress.Tomatine is actually toxic in high doses to humans as well however the highest concentrations are generally found in the stems and leaves which we do not ingest.This poison in the leaf is actually used as a pesticide.The plant itself is in the nightshade family along with other plants like tobacco and potato.Hornworms have developed a resistance to that particular alkaloid however it is still present in their system and will transfer to whatever eats it.The tomato itself is also actually very high in oxalates which is also not a good idea for a beardie.

 

[prickly]

Thanks so much, thats the answer I've been looking for.
I knew it must be their diet, but I didn't know tomatoes were toxic to herps
that is good to know
i wanted to try and flush his system and gut load the HW but I thought it too much trouble for one, and I didn't know how safe it was considering how little I know about them and their digestive system and such-
thanks everyone

 

[vickson420]

Glad it helped clear things of up for you.
As for flushing his system out I honestly dont know if it is possible or even how long it would take.It takes quite some time just to flush a plant from toxins so I cant imagine it would be easy considering it has a more complex digestive system then that of a plant.If you really want to ensure that your feeders are healthy as well as be aware of exactly what they are fed you could always consider raising your own colony I suppose.I personally just order in bulk like the others.I find it the most inexpensive and viable method personally plus I attempted it with crix and was darn near ready to hang myself from all the chirping so I seriously doubt I will ever attempt that again..LOL.