Why is this going on with her tail?

[Birdy]

Hello all,
I'm pretty sure this is going to be a long post so here goes nothing.
Ok let's begin. While I was feeding the lizards last night I noticed Liz’s tail where the bump is, was bleeding a little bit, (this is the first time it's bled). I gently wiped it with just a wet paper towel and then put gauze and bandaids to hold the gauze in place. I rinsed it off with warm water this morning and then put original neosporin on it with gauze and bandaids again. It doesn’t appear to be bleeding anymore thank goodness. So now what should I do? Why does her old tail break continue to swell? For the last couple of months it has escalated in size quite a bit, and off and on I’ve been doing the Serrapeptase, gauze/bandaids and putting honey on it for the last couple of weeks.
So here's some back round
I've been to at least 3 different vets because of this bump. First 2 basically said it's nothing to worry about, the 3rd vet took an ex-ray and we find out it's an old break in her tail. Okay. She said to come back if it continues to swell. I don't plan to go back to this vet.
I did set up a vet appointment on Thursday with a new vet. I am not going to let them tell me "it's nothing to worry about" for the 4th time! If it's bleeding then something it obviously wrong.
I've posted here a couple of times too about it.
This has been going on for about 3-4 years but has increased in size in the last year and a half to 2 years.
Any idea what the red lines are?
Her diet and husbandry:
100 watt light bulb (no color)
Reptisun UVB T8 full length of her tank
40 gallon tank
two hides (one is more rough and is under basking light the other on the cool side is more smooth)
She gets Dandelion greens and supers.
For supplements she gets Calci-Blast (once a week), Serrapeptase (daily right now), and then once a month Liz gets Bee pollen, Vitamins, Black Cherry Powder, Spirulina, I got all of these off of https://bug-de-lite.com/Home.
Thank you!
Kelly

Here are some pictures.

 

[AHBD]

Hi Kelly, sorry to see this happening. If none of the vets tried antibiotics I think it's most likely too late to correct an infection and risk it not getting better but actually getting worse. Amputation may be the best thing now, just get it off and be rid of whatever has been causing this. Tail amputation usually does not affect them much at all and most dragons bounce back in a day or two. I'm sure the mods. will weigh in as well. How does she seem over all health + appetite wise ?

 

[Birdy]

Thank you for your response! So you think it should be amputated?
Liz’s appetite has been decreasing over the last week and today she didn’t want anything not even her favorite food in the world, superworms. She’s been laying around a lot (not sleeping) not moving much either and seems kind of unhappy. I thought maybe brumation but when the bump bled a little I’m doubting that theory.
Here’s another thing that’s got me confused, in the last week or maybe a bit longer I have noticed that I have to put the superworm right in front of her to get her to eat it and her tongue seems slow or isn’t working all the way or something it was kind of strange. When she’s eating salad she just kind of sticks her whole head into the bowl to get a bite she doesn’t really use her tongue. Why would that be?
Also when I take her to the vet what should I ask them to do? Blood work, a sample from the bump, I’ll bring in a poo sample if I get one, what else?
Thank you again!
Kelly

 

[AHBD]

I'm not sure but her lethargy is probably due to not feeling well with that infected tail on her. Too bad the vets didn't just cut it off + save you this trouble ! If there's a bad infection it's had a chance to affect her much more now so I'd make the appt. + insist they cut it off ASAP. Even then she'll need antibiotics + will hopefully be able to beat it.

 

[Birdy]

Yeah I wish the previous vets did something. It was a lot smaller back then, but still. I hope the reptile vet we're going to on Thursday is good.
Thank you!
Kelly

 

[DorgEndo]

I am not a vet and I do not pretend to be. If this was one of the human patients I see at work, an appendage that stays swollen with signs of infection even years after a bone was broken, the bone injury damaged the surrounding tissue. This compounds over years so the vascular system does not work properly, it can't fix itself, it will get worse. In risk assessment between life and limb, the limb is removed to save the life. You need a vet who is competent, experienced, and willing to guide you and your dragon in what the current risks are and how to choose a life with the best quality possible.

 

[Birdy]

Thank you for your response! Everyone I’ve contacted has said it should be amputated. We’ll see what the vet says next.
On a good note Liz ate some salad and 6 super worms! And when I was rinsing off her bump this morning, I let her drink as much water as she wanted from the faucet. While I was feeding her this evening, her eyes were alert and happy and she was very interested in what I was doing and she propped herself up against the cage. I am so happy! Now the only thing left is her tail. I haven’t wanted to give her water in the past because she would choke on it (long story). But now I think I figured out how to give her water without her choking! Yay!

 

[Drache613]

Hello Kelly,

I owe you a letter tonight. LOL
How is your girl tonight? I'm happy to hear that you did get her to eat though, that is great
news. Her tail is probably bothering her some I would imagine so definitely try to get that
taken care of as soon as you can, in case there is infection there.
I really do feel it is an abscess of some type.

Tracie

 

[Birdy]

Thank you Tracie! I’m still going to the vet tomorrow. I think there is definitely something going on there and I don’t think it’s helping her. I’m glad that she is happier though. She was dehydrated. I’m a little blown away that the water helped her so much. It’s the only thing I’ve done differently.
And she didn’t choke! :lol:
Thank you all again!
Kelly

 

[Birdy]

Hey all,
Just finished at the vet. The vet was pretty good. They took a blood sample from it and some X-Rays. On the X-Rays it showed whatever is in the bump has eaten away the bone there. She said as long as it’s been there she suspects cancer. They want to amputate. I can’t say I’m too surprised but it’s rough to hear. We won’t know for sure it’s cancer until tomorrow. Maybe it’s a really bad infection. If it is cancer lets hope it’s a local cancer and not going to spread.
I am planning on getting a second opinion. Sounds like it will be amputated no matter what. Which is also scary because she said since Liz is older she might not recover.
Thank you for all replies,
Kelly

 

[AHBD]

Good to hear that she's eating + drinking ! They really do need extra hydration if infection is going on. Let the vet amputate ASAP, the sooner the better. They can give a local anesthetic + a quick clean cut will not bother her that much. That's the best course of action, don't wait for another opinion on the amputation and let more time go by. They really do not feel too much pain in their tail, there's even a youtube of a guy doing it at home [ I'm NOT recommending it, but it shows that it is not a painful or dangerous procedure ] So she should do fine with that especially because it's not high up on the tail. Then you'll see if it's cancer or a bad bone infection but you'll already have the amp. out of the way.

 

[Birdy]

I’m still going to get a second opinion. I’m seeing some red flags from what the vet told me. This has been going on for 3-4 years what’s another week to 2 weeks?
Also what video are you referring to? I came across one and the guy’s useing oragel for an anesthetic! That’s insane! I would never in a million years try to do a surgery with no experience.

 

[AHBD]

I can understand your decision, just want you to know that 2-3 weeks is a very long time with a spreading infection but it's up to you. And this is the video. He doesn't show the cutting, just shows afterwards, how much he cut off and how well the lizard is doing. Even babies in pet stores or housed together may bite 1-2" or more off a sibling's tail and the lizard still thrives. I'm just mentioning that to reassure you that it's not a real big deal to have it done so you won't worry too much. Beardies do very well with tail amps. but the infection she has now can be the real problem so the sooner it's done the better.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjZMuttq44A

 

[Birdy]

Well thank you! I don’t want to wait too long of course, I just want the best vet for Liz. And the vet we went to today was going to do full on anesthesia not a local anesthetic. There was some other things that made me scratch my head too. And I only want to wait 1-2 weeks, I just thought I’d make that a bit clearer. I plan to make the second opinion appointment in the next couple of days.

 

[AHBD]

Hmmm, well I don't know why they think they need to put her to sleep for a minor thing like that, just a quick swipe with the scalpel will remove it + some beardies would barely flinch. Even if she did, it would be like a child reacting to a shot or getting stitches they don't need to be put to sleep. Hopefully this other vet will know what to do. Putting them to sleep is more dangerous than the procedure itself and waaaaay more expensive.