Why didn't my hornworm pupae emerge?

[szubelak]

So I was trying my hand at breeding hornworms - I had pupae - I had followed the manduca project website along with a thread that I found on here from a long time ago. But my pupae never "hatched" into moths - WHY?

They had been in pupa form for over 4 weeks - I was keeping them moist - they were on moist paper towels in my homemade chamber like the website instructs you to make. I was spritzing them every day or so to make sure their paper towels stayed moist. They were still alive as their butts would still wiggle when I picked them up. The only thing is that they weren't in the dark but I'm not sure if that matters.

Can anyone solve my problem because I'm taking another go at it.

Thanks!

 

[BotanicalStig]

Sounds like you did everything right (I'm researching this as well). I'll keep an eye on this thread because I want to start breeding them as well. Sorry I couldn't offer any help.

 

[BotanicalStig]

After doing much more reading, I think I might have figured out the problem. It's my understanding that before the caterpillars pupate, they should be placed in a deepish container with a loose substrate they can dig in. Allow them to pupate in their place, and place the container into the moth cage.... let nature take its course from there- they should come up on their own. I've read that leaving them on a flat surface during the pupae stage (such as paper towel) will drastically reduce survival rate. Hopefully someone else with experience will chime in, but this is my take on it from my research.

 

[szubelak]

interesting - I had them in containers with damp paper towels when they pupated - I have actually had 2 others emerge as moths - the first was the very first that I let pupate out of curiosity - I didn't time it and had forgotten all about it - it emerged while still in the enclosed container with the paper towel - it couldn't open its wings properly and I had to get rid of it.

The 2nd one that emerged on me just did like the day after I posted this original post. I don't remember why I let him pupate -I think I was hoping it would be close enough to the others because I only had 4 and figured it would be my luck that I had 4 males or something etc- but he was also in a cup (with an open top this time) - I had placed the cup into the box in case he did emerge. (He wasn't able to climb out - I was hearing noises for like 2 hours before I figured out what it was - he was alright once I tipped over the cup - he's still in my box actually)

So you might be onto something - perhaps I shouldn't have removed my 4 that didn't emerge from their cups.

I currently have 11 that I am trying to pupate - so I will change up my methods and see what happens. I had read that they have to have something to climb up out of their container so they can fully open their wings -which is why I took them out of their cups and put them on damp paper towels with a dry paper towel hanging onto the damp paper towel (I hope that makes sense) - maybe this time after they pupate I'll just cut down the cups so they are really short and put them (in the cups) in the chamber ...

These moths are really ugly and creepy looking btw - makes me kind of squeamish! not sure if I'll be able to do this.. (just checked my 11 - had 1 escapee that I found but none turning brown yet)

 

[BotanicalStig]

Did you see the pictures explaining how to tell the sex? As for them getting out of the cups after they emerge, someone rolled up some paper towel and used that as a bridge between the cup and their screen. I also read that their cups should be exposed to light 14 hours a day to prevent them from waiting the "winter" out.

 

[szubelak]

yea - I've seen the sexing the pupa pictures and I couldn't tell - lol - that's also why I thought all 4 were the same sex - I didn't have the light on in the box because I didn't think it mattered when they were pupa - The first one that hatched on me still in the enclosed container was in my laundry room which is dark almost all the time except when I'm in there (not often!! haha!) so that doesn't support what you're saying but what you're saying makes sense.

I actually think 1 of the 4 hatched in the box with the other one that's in there (today)- because I have 1 dead moth upside down on the floor of the box and another alive - not sure which is which - maybe if I turn the light on tomorrow the other 3 might emerge - I didn't even open up the box to see which pupa it was - they have since rolled around - I'm still creeped out about the moths - they're so icky looking - I've only had the black painted night light on for the last day - the other bulb I have in there is actually a 40 watt and I read it's supposed to be a 25 watt - I'm afraid the 40 might get too hot and start the box on fire or something

 

[szubelak]

I had my light on today and now one of the 4(that I thought were dead) is wiggling - so I think it's trying to emerge ! (I'm such a nerd because I was sitting there staring into the box - but it's going so slow that it's like watching wallpaper peel!

 

[BotanicalStig]

Has anything happened? I've got a bunch of horns that are too big for my beardie to eat so I guess I'm going to let them pupate.