Why are 110F basking surface temps recommended?

[MostBeast]

I guess I'd just like to start a little discussion. Why is 105-110F surface recommended for dragons? Where do these numbers come from? Are we doing it simply because the keepers before us did it, and that's what the care sheets say? I understand you've been keeping dragons for years now and haven't had issues, but what if your dragon could be healthier? Happier?

Australian summers can reach an ambient air temp of about 100F, but that's usually the upper limit. An average is a good low 90s. Nevertheless, surface temps with ambients this high would be much much higher than 105-110F.

I've seen beardies bask all day long in captivity when they have 105 surface temps, but isn't this them telling us they're cold? They shouldn't be under their basking spot for most of the time they're awake. Their basking time in the wild is very very brief, as they can get warm quickly and they would prefer to not be bird food.

Wouldn't digestion become much easier? Wouldn't passing foreign media (substrate) be much easier? Wouldn't the dragon finally feel "warm"?

Again, I'd like to start a little discussion. Please, no hostility, I just want to see opinions/experiences from playing around with basking temps.

 

[kingofnobbys]

110 F max basking temperature comes from the observed responses of dragons to temperatures in their natural range and the climatic conditions there in the breeding season.

More details here : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=233516

The climatic conditions at Alice Springs are as good an indicator as any wrt the climatic conditions the natural range of central bearded dragons.

 

[CooperDragon]

Yeah I think a lot of it originated from temps in their natural habitat (which varies quite a bit I realize) and combined with experience keeping them in smaller enclosed spaces. Over time we've observed them happily basking in the zone of about 100-110 so that's what's recommended. It's always evolving based on new information and observations though. I advocate providing as much variety as you can through a gradient of both temperature and UVB intensity. They know best what they like so if you can provide a gradient they'll choose what they prefer. You can also tweak it to an individual preference. Bump the basking temps higher and see how they respond. Maybe some of them like 115-120. Maybe they will choose cooler spots when 105 is available so you can bring the temps down a bit. It's kind of a sliding scale that moves based on observations of their preferences. My guy tends to hang out in the mid 90s a lot but will move to bask under 105-110 from time to time as well. He doesn't spend too much time on the cool side in the high 70s but it's available for him. Our recommended range is a good starting point and a safe zone that has proven to work well so it's good for general info.

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from General to Enclosures

 

[EllenD]

What you have to account for is that wild Bearded Dragons in their natural environments can move to any temperature zone they want at any time, while a captive Bearded Dragon kept inside a very small tank or enclosure (very small in comparison to a vast, Australian Desert, lol) cannot do this if we don't have different temperature zones available inside their tanks/enclosures at all times. They are stuck, and we have to give them as many different temperature and light options as we can within the limitations presented by an artificial environment like a small glass tank or wooden enclosure. Hence the need for at least one "hide" or "cave" for them to get out of ALL light at any time, and always having a "Cool Side Ambient", a "Hot Side Ambient", and a "Basking Spot Surface" temperature zone available at all times.

So if you're saying that the Ambient Temps in the natural Australian Desert are usually in the high 90's to low 100's, keeping an artificial "Hot Side Ambient Temp" between 88-93 degrees F is as close as we can get to copying that natural ambient temperature zone and still keeping that particular temperature zone much lower than the Basking Spot Surface Temp will be. Yes, the surface temps out in the natural Australian Desert most likely do reach much higher temps than 105-110 degrees F, but do wild Bearded Dragons sit on surfaces hotter than that? No, they don't, and that's where the research that Knobby's presented above comes into play. So basically we are taking the average temps that wild Bearded Dragons spend their time in, and then recreating these average temperature ranges as best we can artificially inside the limitations provided by a small tank or enclosure. It's not a perfect system, but it hits the average high, average low, and a middle temp range between the other two that is as close to the average temps that Dragons spend their time in out in the wild as closely as possible inside a small, artificial environment.

And we also know that wild Bearded Dragons do not spend continuous periods of time basking on "Surface Temps" over 110 degrees, as has been observed in the wild and then additionally backed-up by the many captive, pet Bearded Dragons that have become severely dehydrated when forced to sit in temperatures between 110-115 degrees, and then unfortunately the captive dragons who have perished in basking surface temps above 115 degrees for any length of time. And then we can also use the data from temperatures at the other end of the temp ranges, in the wild they can get into the shade and off of the hot surface temps to cool down, and the average of 70-80 degrees is the temp range they go to in the wild to cool down.

Yes, dragons "mouth gape" to regulate body temp, they also purposely "darken" themselves in order to attract more light and absorb more heat when they want to. That's a help to us, as it gives us a lot more leeway when trying to create an artificial environment for them inside a little enclosure that represents 3 separate, average wild or natural temperature zones...