Which type of worm should I get for my beardie? Please help!

[nicolemarie117]

I have had my beardie for 2 weeks now. He is young (about 4 inch not including tail. Im about to order him some worms online. Which should I get . . . ?
super worms
wax worms
pheonix worms
butter worms
hybrid red
These are the choices.
Thanks so much!

 

[jargonchipmunk]

of you're asking for a staple food (I.E. what you feed him all the time.) get small pheonix worms. Sadly, they're the only option for worms with a baby beardie. wax worms and butter worms are only for treats, as they have too much fatty content. supers can't be fed until the dragon reaches 16" in length, as before that time, they have a dangerous kink in the digestive tract that can lead to impaction with this particular worm. (not to mention supers are huge lol)

small crickets will be a much more cost effective alternative (although the pheonix worms are one of the two most nutricious foods you can feed a beardie as a staple bug) small silkworms would be the other, but they're even more cost prohibitive and are a lot harder to keep alive until your dragon eats them all.

a lot of people feed dubia nymphs (baby roaches) but I, like so many others, can't have roaches of any type in the house, a rule which comes down from the Lady

 

[Embee]

Phoenix all the way! :mrgreen: Indeed, as Jargonchipmonk mentioned, of the worms you've listed they are the only ones worthy of being a staple (silks are another, along with supers but of course, no supers before 16 inches).

PWs are full of natural calcium and wonderful for growing babies! Highly recommend! Also, they contain natural lauric acid which helps combat coccidia. I find this particularly helpful as we feed PWs in combination with crickets... and those little hoppers are the harbingers of parasites! :wink: That said, we haven't yet had a single problem with internal bugs (thank you PWs, and husbandry), however I have managed to drop the PWs container a time or two... "maggots anyone?"

The best,
Em

 

[SJM]

I would recommend sticking to crickets at this stage in his life, but if you have to choose a worm then go with Phoenix Worms. Watch out for yellow urates because this can be a sign of your beardie getting too much calcium, which Phoenix Worms can do to a lizard. I also think that Phoenix Worms will grow too fast for your beardie, especially in hot climates. Crickets would be a better solution. I use http://www.premiumcrickets.com/ and they're amazing.

- SJ

 

[coldhearted]

id say small crickets should be the main food source, but if they baby is not enthused you can throw in some small pheonix worms, i swear they work like a charm! our baby "midget" is no longer the midget lol she is a fatty

 

[Embee]

I also think that Phoenix Worms will grow too fast for your beardie, especially in hot climates.

This is interesting. I've never heard about or experienced this? We've been feeding PWs for 7-8 months now (as a combo staple feeder along with crickets). She eats about 40 a day (along with about 40 crickets). I've kept PWs up to 2+ months at times, and haven't had them "grow" on me. :dontknow: At any rate, I'm intrigued. Have you had this happen, having them grow (over time, or due to warm temps)? Would love some elaboration here, as my curiosity is most certainly piqued! :mrgreen: Ah, what's a good beardie slave without needing a good live feeder story! I think that perhaps that last comment classifies me as a beardie-geek.

Nicolemarie,

I do not dust PWs with calcium as they have plenty of their own. I VERY lighty dust 4 to 5 cricket meals per week, and dust crickets with vites twice per week. I haven't thus far, experienced any calcium overdosing, and our girl is MOST healthy (after a very slow start) so we were most pleased with how the PWs stimulated her appetite at a time when she wasn't readily accepting crickets well (she loves both now).

If you do go with PWs, take care to store them in a cool place 60-70 degrees, as they will last longer this way. They are tiny by the way. If you'd like to start out with X-S to be safe, it could be a good way to gauge which size is best but I imagine you'll be up to small very quickly. The mediums, and then larges aren't much bigger. Our girl has been eating mediums easily and safely since she was 6 inches long, and has been eating large since she was about 12-13 inches (could have switched up much earlier but I like how long the mediums last). She is 15 inches now and the larges are starting to seem rather small for her, but she's not quite ready for supers so we'll hold off a bit. The larges I should add, are at the end of their life cycle, and do not tend to last as long as the smaller sizes.

PWs are also very nice because they don't require feeding. A VERY low maintenance feed--a nice plus. And of course their naturally high calcium, and good overall nutrition make them an ideal feeder for growing babies. And, while it's possible to use them as a staple if need, many opt to use them as a combo staple with another feeder, such as crickets or roaches. Variety is the spice of life! :mrgreen:

Only other thing I would add, is that beardies tend to love them, and therefore gobble a bit, especially at first. You might want to offer just a few at a time to make sure your dragon chews/pierces each one so that they are digested properly. We put greens over ours, which tends to slow our girl down. She will occasionally have a worm in her poop, but it seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Here is a link to a previous thread with a related discussion (a good FYI before feeding PWs): viewtopic.php?f=18&t=98632&hilit=+pooping+after+phoenix+worms. Dr. Phoenix himself weighs in with some very useful information.

The best,
Em

 

[Fal]

Wow, I had heard of silkies being good, but are soooo hard to find in the UK and die so easily I hear. I have, however, seen pheonix worms for sale, so that's great! We HATE crix, and have since stopped feeding them to Draco (well occasionally, when it's all we can get, and to keep some veriety for him), and have been using locusts (sorry our US cousins, apparently they're not allowed over the pond) which are high in protein and so much easier to use as they don't run and hide when you drop them in (silly things) so Draco tends to get them all straight away!

So it'll be nice to get him pheonix worms too, to mix up his diet

I love the 'search' button lol

Jon

 

[imperialkingworms]

of you're asking for a staple food (I.E. what you feed him all the time.) get small pheonix worms. Sadly, they're the only option for worms with a baby beardie. wax worms and butter worms are only for treats, as they have too much fatty content. supers can't be fed until the dragon reaches 16" in length, as before that time, they have a dangerous kink in the digestive tract that can lead to impaction with this particular worm. (not to mention supers are huge lol)

small crickets will be a much more cost effective alternative (although the pheonix worms are one of the two most nutricious foods you can feed a beardie as a staple bug) small silkworms would be the other, but they're even more cost prohibitive and are a lot harder to keep alive until your dragon eats them all.

a lot of people feed dubia nymphs (baby roaches) but I, like so many others, can't have roaches of any type in the house, a rule which comes down from the Lady

Actually, you can buy supers as small as 1/4". Of course it wouldn't be a good idea to feed a huge 2" super to a baby dragon, but there is no reason why you can't adjust the size of the supers to meet the needs of smaller dragons. Feeding the smallest sizes gets around the problem of kinks in the digestive tract while still offering supers as a quality staple for all size dragons.

 

[Embee]

Actually, you can buy supers as small as 1/4". Of course it wouldn't be a good idea to feed a huge 2" super to a baby dragon, but there is no reason why you can't adjust the size of the supers to meet the needs of smaller dragons. Feeding the smallest sizes gets around the problem of kinks in the digestive tract while still offering supers as a quality staple for all size dragons.

Is there not a an impaction risk with supers? I haven't seen one "in the flesh" myself, but my understanding is that they have a hard shell similar to a meal worm, and this is a further reason they are not ideal for babies. :dontknow:

Thanks!
Em

 

[imperialkingworms]

Actually, you can buy supers as small as 1/4". Of course it wouldn't be a good idea to feed a huge 2" super to a baby dragon, but there is no reason why you can't adjust the size of the supers to meet the needs of smaller dragons. Feeding the smallest sizes gets around the problem of kinks in the digestive tract while still offering supers as a quality staple for all size dragons.

Is there not a an impaction risk with supers? I haven't seen one "in the flesh" myself, but my understanding is that they have a hard shell similar to a meal worm, and this is a further reason they are not ideal for babies. :dontknow:

Thanks!
Em

They are actually softer bodied than meal worms, but at larger sizes, they can pose a problem for impaction in smaller dragons, hence the reason they are generally suggested for dragons on 16". If you use a size proportional to the size of your dragon, you can use superworms as part of a small dragon's diet though.

 

[Embee]

They are actually softer bodied than meal worms, but at larger sizes, they can pose a problem for impaction in smaller dragons, hence the reason they are generally suggested for dragons on 16". If you use a size proportional to the size of your dragon, you can use superworms as part of a small dragon's diet though.

Good information to know.

Thanks,
Em

 

[Fal]

Good information, but, I don't know why, but i'd still worry about using them, even if they are smaller, when there are other, safer options :?

One problem I find, is ordering such things on the net (and so I haven't yet). How do you guys suggest to those of us who haven't yet, we go about receiving them? Because, of course, they need to be recorded delivery and royal mail can't guarantee a day (can't even guarantee next day on 1st class recorded delivery), and therefore I don't know if anyone will be in when they come?

Here's a couple of sites that do pheonix worms in the UK, for those brits reading and wondering. I haven't used them, but have heard of them being used on forums and such.

http://www.butterworms.co.uk/

http://www.phoenix-worms.co.uk/Online_Shop.html

Let us know what you decided in the end, and how it goes for your lil dragon

Jon

 

[imperialkingworms]

I don't know about the UK, but in the US, if you don't think you'll be home when your items are delivered, you can ask for it to be held inside at the post office. At least whatever you ordered will be in the a/c or heat (depending on the weather) instead of sitting on your porch, and then you can sign for them when you pick them up. Maybe that would work?

 

[Fal]

It's worth asking, thanks! Especially when I work next to the post office pickup depot!

I'd say leave with neighbours, but doubt they would appreciate the item! lol