What would you do?

[ClydesGirl]

Today I went to the mall to buy some new pants. There is a small pet store there and the last time I went buy, they had an adult bearded dragon in the front window. That was before I got Clyde and learned all about proper dragon care, so I didn't really notice much about his enclosure back then. However, today, I went past there with my new knowledge and realized how atrocious the situation really is. He is in what I would guess to be a 30 gallon tank with wood chips for substrate (like the kind you see guinea pigs and hamsters on). He has two lights in dome clamp lamps at either end, one is just a soft white household bulb and one is an infrared. So he clearly has no cool side with incandescent bulbs at both ends. Plus he has no UVB. The only objects in his entire tank were a fake tree/branch directly under the household bulb and a big pink plastic dog food dish full of water directly under the infrared bulb.

His color was terrible, all dull and gray looking. He had loose, wrinkly skin. He was half closing his eyes while on the tree/branch thing under his "basking" bulb. Even when he opened his eyes and saw me looking at him, he didn't lift or turn his head. It was just a dreadful situation.

He's not for sale, so "rescuing" him isn't an option, even if I could afford a second dragon. The pet store has several pets that just belong to the store and aren't for sale. They have a dog, cat, and toucan as well. Would you have gone in and said something to the pet store employees? I feel like maybe I should have, but I am not a confrontational person and I worry that they wouldn't have listened to me anyway. But I can't help but feel badly for doing nothing.

 

[pamelacoe]

Wouldn't this be considered cruelty to animals? Can you contact a local ASPCA or even the pet shop headquarters?

 

[tonid]

In saw some very small baby beardies in a pet store recently that were not being properly cared for. They were in a very small tank, no cool side, they did have uvb and basking light. They had dried up veg (it had obviously been there a couple of days) and a bowl of meal worms. I asked the pet store assistant how old the babies were and she didn't know. I asked her when they had last been fed and again she didn't know. I told her that I was worried for her welfare their conditions were not ideal and they had no fresh food, but she said that they were fine and fed daily. I went back two days later and it looked like the same veg was there and the mealworms were now all dead in the bowl. I sent an email of complaint to the head office who promised to look into the matter but assured me that staff were all trained in reptile care. I haven't been back yet, but intend to go tomorrow. If I don't feel that the conditions are any better, I am going to report them to the RSPCA (Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals). These pet stores have to be stopped! Apart from keeping reptiles in unsavoury and cruel conditions, they are selling less than healthy pets that become a financial and emotional burden on unsuspecting owners.

 

[pamelacoe]

Go Toni! And keep us updated, please!

 

[ClydesGirl]

Well, I sent a long email to the store's main email address expressing my concerns. Hopefully it will make some impact, but I'm doubting it at the moment. I haven't heard anything back yet. I think I might just go by the store again sometime next week and see if anything has changed. In my email I tried to be super nice so they wouldn't get on the defensive, but it's almost impossible to imagine they they'll not feel like they are being attacked when I pretty much told them that every single thing they are doing is wrong. If they truly care about the beardie, then hopefully they'll get past their own ego and make some changes.

 

[tonid]

Well done. We have to do all we can to help these beautiful creatures x

 

[ClydesGirl]

Well, I got a reply to my email and she basically just told me she knows what she's doing. She actually took the time to write out a lengthy email defending herself, but there is just so much wrong with it, I don't know how to respond. I'll go ahead and paste what I wrote as well as her response and you guys can let me know if you think I should do anything else or just let it go.

I was walking by your store yesterday and noticed the adult beaded dragon you keep in the front window. I had seen the animal before, but I hadn't really examined his enclosure, because the last time I was by there, I didn't really know all that much about bearded dragons. However, I recently got one of my own and have spent the past month or two doing a lot of research on how to properly care for a bearded dragon in order to ensure that mine is as happy and healthy as he can possibly be.

As I said, I'm new to bearded dragon ownership, so I am by no means an expert. However, I have read a lot of care sheets and forum posts from genuine experts and I feel like I am qualified to make a few observations about the care of the adult bearded dragon in your store. Please understand that I am NOT trying to put you on the defensive or criticize your level of care for your dragon's health. I am hoping to just educate you a bit, as I have educated myself, since I am certain you want the best for your dragon as well.

There were a few components to the dragon's enclosure that caused me a bit of concern. As I approached the window, the first thing I noticed from a distance was the lack of any UVB source. I did not see any sort of fluorescent tube to provide UVB and, as I got closer, I checked the two dome lamps and neither contained a mercury vapor bulb, so there seems to be no UVB source whatsoever. UVB is absolutely essential to bearded dragons in the prevention of metabolic bone disease (MBD). Bearded dragons kept in captivity are highly susceptible to MBD, because they do not get nearly the levels of direct sunlight that they would in the wild. They require substantial amounts of UVB in order to create vitamin D and properly process calcium.

Another lighting concern I had is that there were two "heat lamps" at opposite ends of the enclosure. One seemed to be a soft white household bulb. While household bulbs are fine to use as basking lights, they need to be clear glass, not the soft white or tinted versions. The second bulb was an infrared bulb, which should not be used with bearded dragons at all. The other concern with having two heat bulbs is that there is no "cool side" for the dragon to escape to in order to regulate his body temperature. The enclosure should be set up in such a way that the basking area is a little over 100 degrees and the cool side is no more than 85 degrees.

That was another issue I noticed with the enclosure. I did not see any thermometers to monitor the temperature, nor a hydrometer to monitor the humidity. It is possible that the store employees are using a heat gun to monitor temps, which would be fine, but again there needs to be a warm/basking side and a cool side.

As for humidity, it is important to keep the humidity below 40% and preferable below 20% for a bearded dragon. They are meant to live in arid conditions and high humidity makes them susceptible to respiratory infections. It seems very likely that enclosure may be too humid, because there is a large dog food bowl full of water directly below the infrared lamp. The heat from the lamp will cause the water to evaporate and elevate the humidity in the tank. There is no need to keep a water dish of any kind in a bearded dragon's enclosure. The vast majority of bearded dragons will not drink from a dish and instead get their hydration from their food and occasional baths.

The final cause for concern I had was the substrate that is being used. It appeared to be some sort of wood chips? It's generally recommended that you do not used any sort of loose substrate for bearded dragons, as it will cause impaction if they ingest it. While adult bearded dragons are less likely to lick or taste their substrate than juveniles, it can still pose a risk if adults are fed in their enclosures. Yesterday I saw that your dragon had been fed some apple pieces and some of those pieces had fallen out of the food dish and onto the substrate, where pieces of wood chips had then gotten stuck to them. If the dragon were to eat those apples and the wood chips along with them, it could cause impaction that might ultimately lead to death.

Loose substrate can also harbor bacteria and fungus if not thoroughly cleaned and replaced often. For substrate it is recommended that you use newspaper, butcher paper, paper towels, reptile carpet, ceramic or slate tile, or non-adhesive shelf liner. All of these things are safe for the beardie and easy to clean.

I hope you take all of this information to heart. I really just want the best for your dragon, as I'm sure you do. I'm also a bit concerned because I know your store sells bearded dragons and serves as a model to the owners who purchase them. Setting a good example and being knowledgeable about proper care would be a great service to your customers.

For more information, I highly recommend the website http://www.beardeddragon.org. It has terrific care sheets and information as well as a thriving forum community who will happily answer any questions you have.

I certainly appreciate your concern for my bearded dragon "Toad" he has been with me for almost 10 years now. Which you probably already know is an extremely long time for a beardy. Toad doesn't spend most of his time in his tank he spends most of it with us at the counter. When he no longer wants to be bothered by the customers he climbs down by the register and we put him away. He is quite a hardy eater eating every kind of fruit and vegetable there is he also enjoys an occasional mouse or some crickets. I am sure you are aware of there vast nutritional needs.
As you may already know Hagen has a fabulous bulb called the Repti Glo There are different bulbs to choose from depending on your particular reptiles needs. The florescent bulbs of a few years ago are not found in most of the stores now. I don't see the need to waste the customers hard earned money on something this bulb can do better and not drain your pocket. Toad not only has his Sun Glo bulb but also has a red bulb that is kept on so he never gets a chill. The Sun Glo is on only during daylight hours, to represent the the natural day Naturally this is on a timer.
Substrate is extremely important, even though toad rarely eats in his tank we use only reptile safe bedding you may not be familiar with the brand we carry feel free to ask for a sample. We DO NOT use calcium sand or sand that would not be exact to toads natural sand heritage.
Our bearded dragon breeder Earl would love to chat with you. He often brings many of his wide variety of beardies to the store to help people expand their knowledge with beardies as you know they make wonderful companions. I would be happy to let you know the next time Earl will be visiting. I am sure you would enjoy his vast colors violet, citrus, citrus tiger, flame, snow and so on. He is quite an amazing man with many many years experience.
Our Vet is also very knowledgeable on the care of beardies he commends us on Toads health and how lucky we are to have had such a friendly tolerant beardy to let the customers enjoy and learn from for the past 10 years.
So as you can see Toad is very well taken care of and is a very happy reptile. If he was stressed or not cared for meticulously he would not have blessed my life and the lives of others for so many years.
Again thank you for your concern I will pass your hello on to Toad.

 

[bkelley]

And that's the sad fact. People believe just because nothing bad has happened, to their knowledge, there is nothing wrong. Sure, I can smoke two packs of cigarettes a day and would probably live a long and happy life. Doesn't mean that it's good for me. I can't stand looking at animals in pet stores, nothing about them is humane. I've gotten all my pets from private breeders. I feel bad because I feel that the ones at the stores are the ones that need the most love, but I refuse to help support their business. Petsmart is the only place I give my business. They seems to treat their animals fairly well. Granted, they only have a few reptiles, birds and fish. But the one I go to is always clean, cages are clean and the animals looks healthy and active.

 

[ClydesGirl]

And that's the sad fact. People believe just because nothing bad has happened, to their knowledge, there is nothing wrong. Sure, I can smoke two packs of cigarettes a day and would probably live a long and happy life. Doesn't mean that it's good for me. I can't stand looking at animals in pet stores, nothing about them is humane. I've gotten all my pets from private breeders. I feel bad because I feel that the ones at the stores are the ones that need the most love, but I refuse to help support their business. Petsmart is the only place I give my business. They seems to treat their animals fairly well. Granted, they only have a few reptiles, birds and fish. But the one I go to is always clean, cages are clean and the animals looks healthy and active.

The thing that really confused me about her reply is that she mentioned ReptiGlo and SunGlo, but had neither of those bulbs for Toad's enclosure. There was no fluorescent at all, compact or tube. And the basking bulb was just a normal soft white household bulb, not a SunGlo. I saw it with my own two eyes. It was just a frosted round bulb. The only light she mentions that was actually there is the red bulb, and I find it hysterical that she claims it's "so he never gets a chill" (it's on the cool side of the viv!) .

 

[SoarHigh]

was it a mercury vapor bulb? Those tend to look somewhat like normal house bulbs, but most people on this forum wouldn't recommend it for any lizard as they can cause eye problems.

This person was obviously being rude in their email when there was no need to act that way.

you may not be familiar with the brand we carry feel free to ask for a sample

Our bearded dragon breeder Earl would love to chat with you.

Again thank you for your concern I will pass your hello on to Toad.

I picked out a few sections from the reply email, and these show the author rubbing things in your face and acting like you don't know anything. It's obvious her ego got in the way, and I'm sorry she was too childish to simply reply "thank you for your concerns" even if she never planned on fixing the problem. Actions like these turn customers away and cause them to tell their friends and family. On average, for every good experience in a store or restaurant a person will tell two people. For every bad experience, the same person will tell seven others.

Honestly, the vet she talks to probably isn't a reptile specialist, and if he/she is then they haven't owned a healthy bearded dragon themselves... In cases like these, people really need to get over themselves. I'd like to toss the pet store owner down a flight of stairs but as there are rules against it I cannot. Darn.

 

[SoarHigh]

This may sound horrible, but I wish bearded dragons could die quickly in the pet stores and open up everyone's eyes. Once pet stores lose money in the deaths of the expensive bearded dragons, they may just invest more money into the proper care of the cute pin-cushions. At least I wish they would invest more, but the truth is they probably wouldn't care..
I've tried telling the pet department in the local store how vital UVB is for baby bearded dragons, but they simply won't listen. I've been nicknamed "the bitch" for simply saying they need to feed their babies more than every other day, that they shouldn't feed only lettuce and carrots, and that they shouldn't use walnut shells. Now the bearded dragons who have been in their care for longer than 3 weeks are starting to show serious signs of MBD and they wonder why. My boyfriend works in the automotive and hardware departments and has no say in the pet section whatsoever, but they have complained to him about me and he knows all about my nickname.

I'm sorry people are so childish, and I wish there was something we could do.

 

[ClydesGirl]

was it a mercury vapor bulb? Those tend to look somewhat like normal house bulbs, but most people on this forum wouldn't recommend it for any lizard as they can cause eye problems.

Definitely not. I am 100% positive it was just a normal soft white light bulb. MVB's are bigger and have a different shape. Plus, she didn't mention any MVB's in her reply, she only mentioned ReptiGlo, which is a fluorescent and a bad one at that!

 

[SoarHigh]

After rereading that email I noticed the author called it repti-glo and then sun-glo... He/she doesn't seem to know what they're talking about.

 

[ClydesGirl]

After rereading that email I noticed the author called it repti-glo and then sun-glo... He/she doesn't seem to know what they're talking about.

Yeah, the lighting part is definitely what confused me the most. ReptiGlo is a fluorescent and SunGlo is a reptile-specific basking bulb and she had neither for Toad's viv. She only had a soft white household bulb at one end and a red bulb at the other end.

Ugh, just thinking about it again is getting me upset. Inadequate lighting, no cool side, no thermometers, wood chip substrate, a giant dog-food dish as a water bowl right below the red bulb (meaning there HAD to be high humidity)... Plus he just looked so miserable and unhealthy. I don't know how she can act like he's healthy and happy in her reply when he was clearly sickly and miserable. Maybe she just has no idea what a healthy adult dragon is SUPPOSED to look like?

 

[Deemac6]

I know how you feel, I live in a small town and we have horrible pet store, i've tried taking home babies to try and save but I only managed to take one home the others they wouldn't let me and they died. The one I took home I wasn't sure was how bad till I got him home and under a light to warm up. His right arm was broke, he couldn't use it. He must have had something wrong with his lungs (I could feel an impaction and there was a wound on his belly) he kept breathing through his mouth and his tongue kept lawling out (After he passed on I got to look at his nose, the tip was bitten off)..he died on me and I never got over it. He was only barely 5 1/2 inchs and I could see his spine, leg bones, arm bones hips, and its the same with them all. 20 babies, no veggies, no basking spot, gets maybe..with the air condition 60F in there tank and I found out today, fed every second day, they just throw crix in and don't watch them. The Geckos are treated no better. I'm making a website, I know there is thousand like it but I need to help the people around where I live and I want to try and make a difference. I'm hoping you guys will help, use your stories so we can help get this issue out and seen to tell everyone how badly pet store treat all the animals, reptiles are neglected, small mammals are neglected and even then cats and dogs get **** on. I'm going to try this..and I would really like you guys to help me out. We will help these babies, cause they can't help themselves!