wet poop and persistant orange urates

[rosiethehobbit]

Hi all,

Barbossa is mostly doing well, but his urates have been kind of tinged rusty orange now for the last few weeks. I've read that it could be a) parasites, b) over-supplementation, c) orange food, d) kidney problems, or e) other. I'm not sure where to start!

He had a fecal in late April and they found pinworms, so we treated with Panacur. I haven't had a re-test (they're super pricey!!) but he gained a bit of weight during the treatment period and I'm not sure if he was getting a high enough dose toward the end of it. I decided to do 2 10-day courses of Reptaid with him to knock anything else out; we just finished the first course. No problems with it, but urates are still orange.

I stopped giving his calcium and multivitamin for a week just to see if it cleared up his urates. They stayed orange, so I started giving them again. I dust really lightly when I use them; if I did any less there wouldn't be any!

He doesn't get a lot of orange food. When he gets squash it's more yellow-colored than orange. His urates are rusty colored.

I hope his kidneys are okay! He had a blood test in April and all turned out normal at that point.

He also usually puts out a bunch of water with his poop and urate and sometimes they're a bit mucousy.

Any insight at all would be much appreciated.

My questionnaire answers
How old is your dragon? not sure - maybe a year?
How long have you had your dragon? 3.5 months
How long is your dragon? 17.5 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 40 gallon (I have a 4x2x2 on order)
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? ceramic tile and paper towel
Do you use UVB lights? yes
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? fluorescent tube
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? Reptisun t5 10.0
How old is your UVB bulb? 3 months
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? 6-8 inches separated by screen
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? Is it a white or colored bulb? yes, halogen 75 watt white
What are the basking temps? 95-105 F within the spot; he moves around it and regulates
What is the cool side temp? 75-80 F
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? a digital thermometer with wire and probe on either end of the enclosure; basking temp taken with a temp gun
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? top of his basking log right under the light
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? no
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. daily salad (daily mustard greens, endive, collard greens, and/or dandelion greens, with 2-4 x weekly butternut, acorn, or spaghetti squash, or cactus pad, 1-2 x weekly small amount of papaya, apple, mango, or strawberry on salad), bugs 4-5 times per week (dubia roaches usually, occasional hornworms, superworms, and/or Phoenix worms, or crickets if I run out of dubia)
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? salad put out fresh each morning, bugs fed between 3 and 6pm
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? yes; same food as he eats, plus grain-based roach chow for the roaches
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? Repcal Herptivite 1 time per week on bugs, Repti Calcium w/D3 on bugs 2-4 times per week
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? yes, every 2 days on average
Do you bath your dragon? How often? yes, 1-4 times per week
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? no
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? in late April, we treated for pinworms with Panacur, and just finished a 10-day cycle of Reptaid (will do another 10-day cycle starting tomorrow)
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no

 

[zalaman]

Orange colour in the urates indicates excess calcium in the diet , it precipitates in the urates as very fine orange coloured calcium oxalate crystals,

While I don't think it's an urgent issue it does seem off. It still has only been several days though. Urate is related to kidney function so it might be a good idea to have a blood test done just to check to see if everything is within normal levels. In the meantime plenty of hydration won't hurt.

 

[rosiethehobbit]

Orange colour in the urates indicates excess calcium in the diet , it precipitates in the urates as very fine orange coloured calcium oxalate crystals,

While I don't think it's an urgent issue it does seem off. It still has only been several days though. Urate is related to kidney function so it might be a good idea to have a blood test done just to check to see if everything is within normal levels. In the meantime plenty of hydration won't hurt.

Thank you for the reply!

I’m not sure if you read through the post but it’s been several weeks, not days, and I tried cutting calcium supplements out completely for a little bit to no avail, and he did have a blood test three months ago that indicated all was well with all systems. Do you think he needs another one already? I’m hydrating him the best I can, my understanding is that when there’s a bunch of water around the stool then they’re getting rid of extra water, right? He usually (not always) has a bit of a puddle.

 

[Claudiusx]

Discolored urates arent always an indicator of too much calcium. And usually when it is an over supplementation issue, the urate will be hard and chalky too.

The majority of the time, discolored urates are in fact from the food they eat.

You feed squash every week. I almost guarantee that is what it is. Spaghetti squash and butternut squash in particular are known to discolor the urates.

You can cut the squash out completely for a week or two to see if you want. If it clears the urate up you know that was it.

Another common cause of the urates being discolored are when dragons eat insects that were gut loaded with certain fortified foods such as the flunkers cricket cubes.

The poos are very wet. You can definitely cut back on some hydration.

-Brandon

 

[SHBailey]

That poop looks pretty normal to me, not too different from what we get from our beardie. There are lots of different reasons for color in the urate, and not all of them are serious when it comes to your beardie's health. Our beardie gets color in his urate sometimes and his vet has looked at it under a microscope and says it's crystalline, not cellular, so not blood. Could be due to a little extra calcium, but he's fine otherwise, except that he has adenovirus -- can be serious but not a death sentence. He's had blood work done a number of times and it's mostly normal for now, although he's had some bad times with the ADV when it made him anemic. His poop is usually mushy with lots of water in it too, and we do our best to keep him hydrated.

Maybe our beardie is not a good example when it comes to healthy poop, but I've learned not to be too worried about anything that comes out of a bearded dragon's rear end unless it contains obvious blood or parasites. :wink: