Weak hind-legs and lethargic

[saden99]

I'll start by saying that I can't do a Vet visit until at least Monday. No Vets are open right now (E-Vets around here don't deal with reptiles) and no vets are open at all on Sunday. Not to mention that there's like 2 reptile-certified vets within 150 miles of where I am.

Beardie is acting extremely strange today. When I woke up and tried to feed him (about 1-2 hours after lights turned on) he rejected the food and started shaking his head with his mouth open and spit up some saliva. Never seen him do that before. He's breathing normally...

I think I know most of the questions asked so here it goes.

Enclosure size: 75 gallons

Substrate: Stone tiles

Age: 2 1/2 to 3 years

Length: 22 inches

Sex: Male

Basking temp.: 95-105 F (varies with the ambient, but usually on the higher end). He has granite rocks in his enclosure and one of them is the basking spot. It gets hot, but no more than 100 F. No wires or anything--just the heat from the basking light.

Cool side temp.: 80-85 F

UV-light: Reptisun 10.0 UVB, replaced 3 weeks ago (I replace every 5-6 months). He gets about 12" from the bulb. I'm going to make it so he can climb even closer, but right now he tends to get most of his UV exposure from the sun anyways.

Food: Phoenix Worms with no dustings. Mustard greens, turnip greens, collard greens with vitamins 2-3x a week and calcium 2-3x a week. He eats more salad then worms because of his age.

Bathing: Usually 2-3x a week, but sometimes I'll give him a bath every day of the week. I don't mist him because the greens typically have water all over them from cleaning.

**No other dragons with him.**

He also has an outside enclosure for the hot days since it reached around 90-100 degrees. He enjoys basking out there. I bring him in before 6pm since fireflies tend to start getting active then. He attempts to eat bugs outside, but generally fails at it. I have seen him eat a wasp and then go on his merry way. Edit: I also do not use pesticides or herbicides in the yard. It's a rather large yard and up on a hill so it's not like we get other people's run-off.



When this started I thought he might want a bath so I gave him one. He took a rather large poop (he's done this many times before) and then started swimming around.

He seems almost listless and is keeping his eyes nearly shut unless something startles him. His beard is also black. It was completely black at first and then it started to brighten up, but it's remaining mostly black. It seems very odd that this would just happen suddenly today. I figured MBD would have earlier signs (if that's what this is) and I do pay close attention to him. He was perfectly fine last night when I put him back into his cage. He's always either basking outside or having a good ole' time jumping onto the chicken wire and just hanging there. He can only climb about 2 feet off the ground, but I've only ever seen him go maybe .5 feet and then he just hops off.

It seems almost like there was some kind of trauma, but his cage is literally 3 granite rocks (stable and flat), the stone tiles and a shoebox that he likes to sleep in. I don't see how he could have hurt himself without REALLY trying.


Edit: Also, he isn't twitching or anything. He's just listless. When I pick him up he started to move and it's almost like he isn't sure where he's going. If I set him on my bed he'd probably walk right off and not know. He isn't blind though as I tell that he sees things in front of him...

 

[saden99]

Bump.

I know people may be hesitant to reply, but I'm just curious if anyone has seen anything like it.

I'm beginning to think he might have somehow hurt his back, but I just don't see how. Everything I see on MBD says that he would be shaking and twitching and he not (other then when he spit out of his mouth). His legs still work as I've picked him up and he definitely grips with his front legs and kicks around with his hind legs; it's just that he seems like he'd rather not use them--like they might be hurt. I guess for now I'll keep him still in his cage with the UV and heat-light and let him do what he wants. He's currently on a towel with a heating pad beneath the cage (towel -> stone tiles -> bottom of glass cage -> heating pad) and sort of looking around.

I did change the times from 14 day, 10 night to 12 day, 12 night just so he would have more rest time. He's now all brightly colored [his beard isn't black] so I'm just going to try to handle him as little as possible. I'm probably going to get some baby food if he isn't going to eat of his worms or greens.


Since he is older should I be getting mostly vegetable-type baby foods with fewer protein-types?

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Is the uvb a coil/compact or tube? He needs to be able to get within 6 to 8 inches of it and there c should be nothing between him and the bulb such as a screen or plastic. Do you dust his feeders with calcium and vitamins?

 

[saden99]

The UVB light is a tube. He can get about 12" (1 foot) away from it and I'll be adding something that he can climb in order to get more. He used to be able to get within 8-9", but the light fell down on the inside and I had to just place it on the rim of the enclosure. It is an open roof so there's nothing blocking the UV-light from falling down.

His feeders are Phoenix worms and I don't dust them with anything. I'll dust his greens with vitamins 2-3x a week and with calcium 1-2x a week (since Phoenix worms are high in calcium on their own). I'd say he gets about 40% worms, 60% greens at the moment.

 

[destiny1998]

Gosh everything sounds good. He poops regular? I really don't know what it could be. Maybe take him to the vet if he doesn't improve in a few days.

 

[saden99]

He does poop regularly. The last time he pooped was yesterday at around 11am when I put him in the bath. I paid no attention to it--just cleaned it out and kept an eye on him. It looked normal for being in the bath-water albeit it seemed like a larger poop as though he had been holding it in or something. There were urates with it.


As an update, he is currently just sprawled out in his cage with the UV light above him and I've pointed the basking light near him to make sure he still gets heat. I've had to give him calcium mixed with water since he isn't eating anything at the moment. I'll probably do vitamins mixed with water tomorrow unless he'll eat something with vitamins mixed in. He is still listless or lethargic today. Just sitting there with his eyes half-closed. He has been moving a little bit, but its akin to someone moving around on their bed [not much].

Just not sure what to do. I literally just made a bunch of payments, took dog to vet for checkup and then this happens very rapidly. I'll see if he gets even slightly better tomorrow then I guess bring him into the vets on Tuesday. What's worse is I'm leaving for NY on Sunday and I'll be gone for 2 weeks. Someone will be here to watch animals and I'll go through what needs to be done with him, but I hate to leave him for so long when he's not feeling well. There's no chance I could take him with me because he just wouldn't get the adequate lighting, I couldn't possibly take his enclosure and I feel like it would just stress him out to be moving so much.


Something I have noticed: at the base of his tail where the two hind-legs meet the body it looks like he has a very slightly raised bump (almost imperceptible) and on both sides of this bump I can see the faint outline of bone. Now I've taken him to a pet store and they thought he was actually pretty fat. I always think he seems skinnier than most bearded dragons I see. I haven't really noticed this before, but I suppose I'm just looking at him much closer than usual.

 

[destiny1998]

You can give him stage one baby food like chicken, turkey, sweet potatoes and squash thst way he gets a little food in his belly and you can mix in the vitamins. I really hope he improves. You can pm drache613 she's a mod on here and she knows alot about beardies.

 

[saden99]

Kind of early...or late however you look at it, but thought I would update since I'm awake anyways.

So he pooped while I was out at the store. Was grabbing some of my own groceries along with some pedialyte (just in case) and soy yogurt. I'm probably going to grab baby food tomorrow. The poop was somewhat abnormal, but I think that's because of the erratic heating he got yesterday due to the symptoms. He never really basked yesterday for a long period of time because he was just sprawled out on a soft-towel in his enclosure. It looked like a poop that just wasn't digested properly, but at least I know it's not something like an impaction. It also had some urate, but it wasn't a solid piece. Again, I figure it was abnormal because of the sporadic heating he was exposed to yesterday.


He is still very bright (like he gets when he's happily basking outside) and he moved around a little bit. I tried to keep him somewhat confined in his enclosure. He seems to be enjoying the heating element and I realized that he's actually sleeping on top of it so I've unplugged it to make sure his temperature can drop and he can get a good rest. I guess he just likes the warm tile on his belly. He didn't seem interested in food that I offered him at all. I hope I don't have to force-feed him the baby food, but I'll gladly do it if it's going to help him recover. I want to see him eating his salad like he's being picky and dancing and jumping around like a lunatic.

I didn't give him a bath today, but I guess I'll do a pedialyte/water bath tomorrow for him. Just need to find something for him to bathe in since I don't have enough pedialyte for his normal people-sized bathtub. :mrgreen:

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Even though he is an adult, you could bump his calcium up to 3-4 times per week as sometimes they tend to not absorb it as well when they are a little older.
Also, is anything in between his UVB tube Reptisun like mesh/screen or plastic? Can you get the UVB tube within 6-8 inches for a stronger exposure for him, that would probably help a lot, too.
If you can, taking him outside would get him some UVB blast that is usually loved by most of them, just being outside in the bright light.
Do you have any pictures of him we could see?
Were you able to get any baby food into him today?

Tracie

 

[saden99]

Update:

Okay, so he has taken a turn for the better. He actually started eating again yesterday (about 10-15 phoenix worms) and he had the same amount today. Today I dusted them with vitamins because he's still not eating his greens. He's always been funny about his greens though. His leg appears to be working normally and he's active. I put him outside and supervised him today and he was extremely active. He even jumped up onto the chicken wire and just hanged there for a good 30-45 minutes. Some ants have decided to invade so I had to put down some food-grade diatomaceous earth. He actually scared me a little because when I went to rub his belly as he was hanging I saw what I thought was a hard object inside his upper-right abdomen (or w/e it is for them). I believe it's a rib-bone and it looks like it's pushing out just a little more than the other side, but it's hard to tell and I'm thinking it's because of the way he was stretching his arms out. When I pushed on it he wasn't bothered one bit.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That sounds like it is just a rib placement, it can stick out at varying angles when hanging in different positions.
I am glad he is doing well! So his leg is working better? It sounds like he is active & doesn't seem to bothered by the leg at all.
Darn ants they are such pests! Hopefully the diatomaceous earth works good.
Maybe he will start eating greens again, too. They can be so picky about greens.

Tracie

 

[saden99]

Alright, so this will probably be my last update to THIS thread...


His 180° turn has continued. He's moving his hind legs with relative ease and without any issues. He ate more phoenix worms yesterday along with some of his greens (with vitamins). He was also outside yesterday under supervision and was just having a blast running around and jumping onto the wire then jumping off and harassing the tortoises (two small sulcatas). They all enjoy harassing each other, but they can't really do any harm to him and he isn't interesting in them as food in any way...

Anyways, he got more greens with vitamins today (since he didn't eat much of them yesterday) and he's actually eaten about 75% of the greens now. It's just a mixture of turnip, collard and mustard greens. I actually went through them yesterday and picked out, cleaned and dried the best of it so they would last at least another week in the refrigerator. I'm surprised he isn't just eating a little and then waiting for tomorrow when they are dried out--he does that a lot. I guess he doesn't like eating them healthy!


I just don't understand what it was. I'll be going up to the lake for 2 weeks next week and someone will be watching him, feeding him, bathing him, etc. during that time. I will more than likely take him to the vet for his checkup the week that I get back, but he seems perfectly healthy. He's even putting on some weight, but it was only 2-3 days that he wasn't eating so it's not as though he lost a lot of it.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is wonderful news he seems to be all better now!
It sounds like it was just a sprain possibly of his leg, but at least it is better & he is eating & moving around perfectly normal then!
He has fun running around with your small tortoises? How cute. At least he was having a good time outside.
If he is eating almost all of his greens that is a great sign he is feeling normal again. Most love the phoenix worms, too.
I am happy you have someone watching him while you are gone for awhile. Hopefully he will continue to do well for you & for his care takers while you are gone, too!

You can update the thread, anytime though.

Tracie

 

[Esther19]

Great to hear that he is doing well now. Even eating his salad!