Vitamin D3 Problems????

[mushusmom01]

Mushu had a vet appointment this morning. I thought she was in brumation but the vet says she's sick....inflammation in her intestines caused from the vitamin d3 in her calcium. According to the vet there's been lots of this in bearded dragons lately. LSU is doing a study and this is the conclusion.....so far. My question is.....has anyone else heard of this? Mushu is now on 2 different antibiotics. She is on crushed up Tums for her calcium and baby food. I'm hoping and praying that my lil lady will be alright.

 

[Gail]

What brand of calcium do you use and how much/how often?

 

[Claudiusx]

So did your vet just guess that D3 was the cause or did she actually run a blood panel. The "rumor" of d3 problems has been running around, but I have yet to see a single legitimate case of it in the past 2 years.
Not to mention inflammation of the intestines is not even a symptom of hypervitaminosis D.

How does your vet know the intestines are inflamed.

2 different brands of antibiotics? Which kinds and what dosages?
Once again, antibiotics aren't really a treatment for hypervitaminosis D either.

Are you sure your vet is an experienced reptile vet? Or are the antibiotics for something else?

-Brandon

 

[saiyan25]

We were actually discussing this issue at another topic. I posted some literature on Vitamine D3 supplementation. The link to the topic is below.

http://www.beardeddragon.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=195133

 

[mushusmom01]

I'm sorry it took so long to get back on. I still need help! Mushu isn't any better. To answer some questions on here.....I was giving Mushu crickets dusted with Fluker's Calcium with D3, 3 to 4 times a week. Mushu will be 1 year old Sunday. The vet didn't do any bloodwork on Mushu when I took her in last Friday. She was diagnosed with inflammation of her intestines caused from the D3. She did have a poop Monday. I've been force feeding her baby food with the Tums since Friday. I stopped doing that today + I stopped giving her meds today. She seems to be getting worse with me doing this. I really, really, really think she's in brumation. The vet told me that Mushu wouldn'go into brumation with the correct temps. Before her vet visit she was sleeping all the time. When I woke her up for her bath she seemed strong but since I've been force feeding her and giving her meds she doesn't seem to be doing as well. WHAT IN THE WORLD SHOULD I DO????

 

[mushusmom01]

Her meds are Metronidazole and Baytril.

 

[Claudiusx]

Sorry but your vet is an imbecile.

That statement of your dragon won't brumate if you are providing temps should have been the straw that broke the camels back.

I really have no clue what is going on with your dragon right now. Earlier, it was most likely just brumation or something silly, but now who knows what her body is going through due to the meds and the awfully horrible practice of looking at a dragon and diagnosing it with something only bloodwork can tell.

Would be like me being able to say someone has HIV just from looking at them for 10 minutes.

-Brandon

 

[Claudiusx]

Can you describe what your dragon is acting like now? In detail please?
Clearly I would stop with the meds. At least until you get a blood panel done, which should be no time soon at least until your dragon starts acting slightly better. No need to expose her to more stress.

Flunkers calcium with d3 given twice a day 7 times a week won't lead to hypervitaminosis D.

Just to be clear, before the vet visit, the only worrying sign your dragon was displaying was sleeping which could have been brumation correct?

When's the last time she went poo? How did it look?

Is she black bearding? Trying to sleep?

-Brandon

 

[mushusmom01]

She is sleeping a lot. Her eyes look weak now where they didn't before her meds. She physically seems weaker also. She is puffed slightly but not black. I did get her to eat a bite of collards today....but she really wasn't interested. She had a normal poop Monday...1st one in about a month because she's been sleeping and not eating.....until the force feeding of the baby food. Her daytime temps are 103° warm end and 80° cool end. Night time temps are 86° warm end and 79° cool end.

 

[Claudiusx]

Does she seem to be losing any weight?
And is she tending to stay on the cooler end or the warmer end?

-Brandon

 

[mushusmom01]

She is staying on warm end. I'm 99.9% sure she's in brumation. She hasn't lost any weight. As a matter of fact the vet told me she was pudgy. She weighs 486 grams. She weighed 386 in February. She's a growing girl. Until about a month ago she was a BIG eater. I just want her to be ok. She's my baby girl.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry to hear about your girl!
The vet did not do a fecal correct?
I am glad you stopped the medications as it doesn't sound like she needed them.
They can complicate her health if she has a slown down metabolic system right now.

She could be starting to brumate now, here in July, which is somewhat normal.
Do you have any pictures of her we could see?
At 1 year of age, they can really slow down on their eating all of the sudden too. Would you say she has gained weight or no?

As far as the calcium with D3, they are small animals & can get too much calcium, in general. If they are for some reason, not processing calcium properly, the calcium to phosphorus ratios will be off & the body may have too high of phosphorus which will throw the levels out of whack. Too much phosphorus will bind calcium absorption. If not enough calcium is being absorbed, then the bones will become leached leaving the calcium levels in the blood may be elevated meaning it is not going into the bones. Balance is the key. Elevated calcium levels for prolonged periods of time will cause the calcification of organs, soften the bones & cause nodules on the cervical & spinal column. Dose wise, they only need about 1mg/kg of body weight which is not a lot of calcium but enough for bone & health maintenance.
Your initial 3-4 times per week of calcium with D3 is perfectly fine.
Depending on "how much" powder is given each time, is what should be considered. Really once daily, if enough powder is given & ingested, is plenty
along with the proper UVB lighting. They will naturally synthesize D3 through the exposure of UVB through their skin. If you want to give it a couple of times per day, then a small tiny pinch twice daily, 5 times per week is plenty.
A good way to monitor the calcium intake is by way of looking at the urates & the color & consistency of them. If they are too hard, off colored, etc then you can back down on the calcium a bit.
If you have a chance a blood profile is always helpful though, for overall analysis. If she is brumating though, I would hold off now until she is out of brumation as her levels may be lower on the white blood counts due to the brumation.

I hope that helps out. Post pictures if you have any?

Tracie

 

[mushusmom01]

I have lots of pictures of her...but I can't put them on here. I've tried and tried. I have one of her on here when she was 6 months old. ....and no....the vet didn't do any tests. Mushu hasn't lost any weight. She weighed 146 grams in February and now she weighs 446 grams. The vet actually told me she was pudgy. She was eating LOTS and then hardly anything. She was sleeping a lot so I assumed she was in brumation. This has been going on now for over a month. She will sleep for a few days then wake up for 4 or 5 hours then back to sleep.