Vet wants me to consider putting down

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Just an update on Zilla for last 2 days.

Yesterday she got up early on her own but then wanted to sleep almost all day. She then got up at 8pm and wanted to stay up. I finally shut the lights off after 10 so not sure how long she was up after that.

Today I had her in the grass a little bit. She acted like the more she tried to walk the weaker her front legs are. I even saw them like shake at one point. I’m hoping it’s just because of coming off the anesthetic and nothing else going on. She was walking better a few days after her surgery it seemed like. She doesn’t even seem to want to stretch her legs out all the way it don’t look like. Almost like she doesn’t want to put weight on the then or hold her self all the way up. She is also not wanting to fight me as much last few days and if I pick her up a way she doesn’t like instead of trying to grab onto me with all legs in a panic or throwing her self around like right after surgery she just leaves all 4 hang for the most part. I also noticed sometimes outside when on the ground she wanted in the shade more instead of in the sun.

She was going potty every couple days and it being runny, today she went (went yesterday also) and it was almost like pure diarrhea so I’m guessing I may need to cut back on fluids or her crit care. But she still won’t try to eat on her own so not sure what to do there. I guess it could be her meds she’s on to but not sure.

She still likes to sleep a lot if I let her. We had maybe one day so far where she stayed up almost all day but that was before the day she wanted to sleep all day. She takes her last dose of metacam tonight. So hopefully she wont be in any pain tomorrow and maybe even be feeling a bit better without it. I’m trying to stay positive since it’s only been 9 days not counting day of surgery but at same time that’s my girl and I worry.

For anyone interested as of right now her current meds are:
Metacam (ending tonight)
Cipro (wasn’t given an end date so I guess whenever I’m out)
Milk thistle 2x a day
Ursodiol once a day
Furosimide 2x a day
Enalapril once every 2 days
The first 2 were reperscribed after surgery but she was out on them At the beginning of month.
 
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AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I'm not sure what's going on but Metacam can produce some similar side effects so maybe once she's off of that she'll get stronger. You might even just skip tonight's dose.
 

xp29

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Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
Try nit to worry to much, it may take a while to bounce back, reptiles heal slower than we do.
Also meds really jacks with their appetite, it has takens mines literally months to get back to normal after meds.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is Zilla doing today?
I agree, it does take some time for the healing to occur, especially in reptiles. Has her beard been
normal color or darker in color?
Keep encouraging her to get up & bask as much as you can. Hopefully she will start feeling better.
The metacam really affects them sometimes, it upsets their tummy so that could be a big issue right
now. As AHBD suggested maybe skip a dose or two just to see how she acts after that.


Tracie
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Sorry for the late response everyone. And thanks for the concern. Yesterday was a bad day. Zilla is so weak in her front legs and somewhat shakey when she tried to use them that she don’t want to move. When I took her outside she crawled up on my shoulder to be on the shade down and just laid there looking around the whole time but as soon as I brought her in she was ready to sleep. Soon as I put her in her cage or on the bed her head goes down and she has no desire to look around or try to hold it up.

I talked to her vet in Ohio and she told me with it being a holiday mon they can’t really do much right now, she told me to take her off of the Enalapril and furosimide for now and see if that helps. She’s wondering if with the runny stool every few days and with those to meds if it’s causing a dehydration issue even though she is getting a lot of fluids. She said she’ll call me in a few days to check but in the meantime I do have an appointment set up at a local vet she hasn’t been to for tues to be safe. I’m kinda of worried about it though, when younger we had multiple pets they treated that got worse after seeing them and being treated. So I’m hoping I’m not making a mistake. The vet I was seeing here before going to Ohio I quit trying to see they act like everytime I call they don’t want to see her and tell me to take her to the specialist. They act as if a 3 hour drive one way is something that’s easy to do when I need a vet. On top of that after knowing how scarred up Zilla is on the inside from her first surgery and they didn’t even get out all the follicles I don’t know if o could trust them. They even kept prescribing calcium when the specialist told me her calcium was dangerously high. So basically my options as of now is hope she gets better before tues. Or either see the one vet I’m worried about or try to get her back to Ohio next week.

I woke her up today for her antibiotic and milk thistle, she drank about a syringe of water just from licking it off her nose without me having to force her so hopefully that’s a good sign the going off those two meds will help but she wanted to go back to sleep shortly after so I’m letting her rest for a bit.

Also I did have to give her a smaller dose of the metacam yesterday. Her beard was blacker and she acted like she was breathing a little harder when she got up. She hasn’t taken any since then so hopefully being off 3 meds I’ll start seeing some improvements.


Edit: just a quick update to earlier. She is awake and holding her head up more today so far. She also took about a syringe and a half of crit care on her own. As for her walking it seems like her right paw is swollen again so that may be the issue. It was a going down some right before surgery and after surgery it was normal. Only thing different is she started all her meds. Is it possible if her calcium is still to high that it could be causing swelling in the paws? Just seems weird while she was recovering she was doing better. She still taking her crit care maybe not as much as vet would give but besides that she doesn’t have a Cath giving fluids. So seems to me something triggered it,
 
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AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Good that she's off the meds., do you say she seems a little bit better ? Those can all cause dizziness, weakness, diarrhea so hopefully she might perk up some. I'm sorry you're going through this, I know it's tough for both of you.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I agree, too many meds often cause more problems than solving them. How is her hand doing
tonight?
Her calcium could be too high at the moment, just due to all of her issues. Are you giving any
calcium right now?
Is she sleeping the entire night? I hope she is doing better, real soon.

Tracie
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
She seems a bit better since being off the meds. She holds her head up some and a little more alert again. In the morning she drinks about 1ml of water on her own from a syringe as I drop it on her nose. She also took some crit care for me yesterday the same way and had a small lick of a few other things. She still doesn’t want to eat on her own it seems like. Plus she hasn’t been bathroom for about 3 days where she was every 2 it seemed like.

She is sleeping in the bed with me in an electric blanket. According to temps it’s around 80-82 degrees at night when it’s on and she seems to be out of it when I get her up in the am so I believe she’s sleeping good. I don’t hear her move or anything.

She has only been on calcium on and off for last few months. She had a little at the beginning of the month a few weeks before surgery. She seemed a little shakey in her legs so the vet called some in. She was only on 2 doses of it though at .02ml I believe it was calcium gluconate off head. She did have swelling up until surgery. Right after it was gone. Then she had a few doses of calcium last week. Probably three or 4 days before the swelling came back and she acted ran down again. I gave her a little only because I was worried the follicles drained some and she wasn’t tested again after surgery for calcium.

I looked up I think it’s called Hypercalcemia. Honestly it sounds so much like same effects of low calcium I wonder if it may have been messed up all this time and they just gave her calcium thinking it was the that. I mean it seems like to much can cause swelling in limbs and paws, lethargic, lack of appetite, stiffness to shakey legs. All of which she had everytime she gets these episodes. @Drache613 do you know anything about this condition? How best way to treat it is if that is what she has going on?

I’m waiting for her specialist to call maybe today, they are closed but she said she’d try to call to check on her. I’m going to ask her if it’s possible that it could be from calcium. Plus I have a vet appointment tomorrow Local that I’m going to ask them about it or if they can check for it. This has been going on with the swelling on and off for almost a year like this right after her first surgery. The vet I use to go to would put her on calcium constantly at a higher dose because of the shakey legs. When I went to Ohio the specialist said her calcium was almost dangerously high and she has been off of it almost since December but a little here and there. She also said the swelling could have been the fluid on heart but last time her heart was looked at she said it looked really strong and good. So I’m just wondering if it is the calcium.

I’ll add a few pics of her and her foot so you can see it’s the same thing again we have felt with.
 

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xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
That poor baby, she looks so tired. I hope she gets to feeling better soon.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Brandon,

How is Zilla this evening, bless her, she does look tired there. It sounds like though, she is
sleeping pretty well which is good.
Hypercalcemia & Hypocalcemia have similiar symptoms unfortunately & often mimic metabolic
bone disease which mars the diagnosis.
Hypercalcemia can lead to heart issues, renal issues, calcification of organs possibly, odd swelling
& growths or nodules on the cervical or spinal areas sometimes. If your dragon has trouble with
absorption of calcium due to health issues such as what she was going through with the egg &
follicular problems that likely contributed to a lot of it. Her system's metabolism was thrown out
of balance & her body probably wasn't excreting excess properly. It is highly possible as well that
her doses of calcium were too high.
Was she ever given calcium injections possibly?
You could consider trying to give parsley, cilantro, basil & mint a few times per week to try & bind
excess calcium for awhile & monitor her behavior. Is she drinking a good amount of fluid right now?

Keep us posted on her.
Tracie
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Hello Brandon,

How is Zilla this evening, bless her, she does look tired there. It sounds like though, she is
sleeping pretty well which is good.
Hypercalcemia & Hypocalcemia have similiar symptoms unfortunately & often mimic metabolic
bone disease which mars the diagnosis.
Hypercalcemia can lead to heart issues, renal issues, calcification of organs possibly, odd swelling
& growths or nodules on the cervical or spinal areas sometimes. If your dragon has trouble with
absorption of calcium due to health issues such as what she was going through with the egg &
follicular problems that likely contributed to a lot of it. Her system's metabolism was thrown out
of balance & her body probably wasn't excreting excess properly. It is highly possible as well that
her doses of calcium were too high.
Was she ever given calcium injections possibly?
You could consider trying to give parsley, cilantro, basil & mint a few times per week to try & bind
excess calcium for awhile & monitor her behavior. Is she drinking a good amount of fluid right now?

Keep us posted on her.
Tracie
I’ll try to pick some of that up and see if it helps. I assume I don’t give her too much of it. I’ll probably have to make it in a smoothie since she won’t eat on her own yet.

She has been taking liquids better on her own lately. Last few mornings when I wake her up I offer her water out of a syringe and for the past couple days she would drink 1ml every morning after taking her meds. Today she did 2ml. She’s been doing it by me just dropping it on her nose/mouth where I was having to put the syringe in her mouth to get her to take anything. On top of that she takes about 3-6 crit care a day and I make it a little more runny to keep her hydrated. She also hasn’t been going to bathroom like she was. It was every 2 days and runny to sometimes like diarrhea after surgery. Today will be 5 days since she last went so she seems to be holding more liquids in.

After her initial surgery back in June she was put on liquid calcium really high doses almost monthly for a good while. She was never given calcium injections though only antibiotic injections that I know of. Every time she would start acting weak or shakey in the legs they would just give her more liquid calcium. The vet in Ohio when we went in Dec I believe it was the first time I found out her levels were “almost dangerously high” and she had been off calcium for the most part since then. A little here and there. That’s also when we found out her heart had a bit of fluid on it, then it was her gaulbladder issues then the follicles again. But the swelling has been on and off probably since July or August. Like I said she was on a lot of calcium provided by her original vet and when she wasn’t on it they had me give her 2 powder ones. one with d3 2 times a week and one without d3 3 times a week. I’ll go back thorough what med history I have on her later and just see how much calcium and doses it was. But I do feel that her swelling may be from too much. Seems odd to me that she was swollen a little before surgery, after she was fine but a few doses of calcium later and she was swollen up again.

I have to have her at the vet in about an hour so I’ll post an update later what this one says and also try to go over her records and just see how much calcium she was on since June.
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Back from vet. I was told Zillas calcium is too high. They gave her 2 shots of normal saline at 3ml each to try and lower it some. We have to go back for a few days to get more shots and play it by ear until she perks up some. In the meantime I left a message for her specialist to let them know what’s going on and this vet recommended me to see if they want to see her sooner to be safe.
I will admit he did worry me at first, he picked her up from her sides a few times and kept feeling them and pushing in on them to check her over. I had to ask if that would hurt her since she had surgery but he said it wouldn’t. She definitely didn’t like it though but she didn’t act like she was hurting or anything I could tell.

Since we got home she took 3 crit cares and struggled I think a little to go potty but she went alot and it’s not formed but it’s not as diarrhea like at the same time.



@Drache613 I’ll attach her lab results here also so you can see what you think.
 

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xp29

BD.org Addict
Photo Comp Winner
Beardie name(s)
Zen , Ruby ,Snicker Doodles, Sweet Pea, Sinatra
I feel so bad for your poor little girl, she has had a hard row to hoe. I hope she is outta the woods and starts feeling better soon.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello Brandon,

Ok, the calcium is too high since she definitely isn't developing eggs or follicular development.
Just wondering, can you look at the package of the Critical Care & let me know how much calcium
is in the product? Perhaps that is overloading her system possibly.
Is she doing ok, after her vet visit?

Tracie
 

Subion

Hatchling Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Zilla
Hello Brandon,

Ok, the calcium is too high since she definitely isn't developing eggs or follicular development.
Just wondering, can you look at the package of the Critical Care & let me know how much calcium
is in the product? Perhaps that is overloading her system possibly.
Is she doing ok, after her vet visit?

Tracie
I’ll have to check when I get home. I have 2 different ones she eats. Different flavors so she don’t get tired of one. Never thought about the calcium in it.

In the meantime she got another 6ml of fluids today and we go back tomorrow. But I do have some good news today. After I let her take a nap and we finally got outside she ate 4 blueberries and a dandelion on her own. I’m going to try some kale later to see if she’ll eat any. She also seems to be looking around more today while we were out. Her legs are still weak and bugging her but I think the swelling may have went down in her paw some. So hopefully we stay on this path.

Edit: @Drache613 i about forgot but I’ll add the pic of the back of the crit care. Looks like both flavors seem to have the same stuff/ percentages. Calcium min .60% max .80%. Also has crude protein so not sure if that can set off her gulbladder. That was one thing the vet thought before caused the swelling was all the protein from insects
 

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