VERY odd behavior -ADVICE PLEASE?!

[alyel]

A few months ago we got 2 new babies. We housed them together until we could get another tank. The smaller of the 2 (Gunner) was not getting to eat much because of the other one (Piper...she's a fat cow lol), so we put him in a separate tank as soon as we could. (We have 10 gallon tanks for each of them because they're still juvies. We just built new enclosures for them though.) For a few weeks he was doing really good. He was mowing down his salads, and even eating his crickets. He looked like he was fattening up finally. Recently he has been acting very weird. He is always sitting in the same corner of his tank. He is always very dark. He is always clawing at the glass trying to get out. But the weirdest part is...every time one of us walks by him or up to his tank, he gets scared. He will back up into the corner and lower himself to the bottom of the tank and will look at us with these HUGE eyes. Like we're going to pick him up and eat him. He's petrified of us. He never used to be. We try to handle them as much as possible. I will also point out that Piper is about 3 times the size of Gunner. Which is worrying me too. He is very small. I hardly see him eat anymore. If he does, it's when we're not home usually. He doesn't eat his salads like he used to. I did give him a couple supers to see if he was afraid of them, because when we put crickets in sometimes he spazzes out like he is afraid of them. He ate the supers up real quick. I was surprised. And when he's asleep at night (in his corner of course), he is bright orange again and there are no stress marks. It's like he's happier when he's asleep
I just don't understand why he is so afraid of us. My adult dragon's tank is next to him but he can't see her and we put up something to block it just in case he can see her. So that's not stressing him. Does he just hate his cage? I'm clueless here! Should we get a fecal done?
Piper, on the other hand, is a going to be a big girl and goes crazy for her food lol. She is totally healthy and "normal".

 

[Claudiusx]

This sounds more like a husbandry problem, not a behavioral problem.

Is the dragon still in the 10g tank? You need to get him a much bigger one.

What are the temps like? Basking-hot-coolsides?
What did you measure temps with?
What uvb light do you use?
How old is the uvb light?
Do you dust with vitamins and calcium?
How often do you offer food?
How big is the beardie in question?
How old?

-Brandon

 

[alyel]

The temps have not changed. The UV bulb is a couple months old. It does not make sense that one day he is fine and the next he is totally different. We tried switching tanks and he wasn't happy in the other one either. He is so small that a 10 gallon tank is not too small for him. It's not that he needs more room. He is tiny. But as I said, we have a new enclosure built for each of them. They are HUGE enclosures. They are moving in within a couple of days. After the rocks are finished. I feed them in the morning and when I get home from work at 5. I have no idea of an exact age. Like I said, we've had them since July. They were just little guys when we got them. I'll post pics of them when we got them. And pics of them now. You can see the difference.
I use Reptisun 10.0
Salads are dusted.
Crix are gut loaded. Same as what we give Piper. No difference. I'll post pics in a min here....

 

[Claudiusx]

The temps have not changed. The UV bulb is a couple months old. It does not make sense that one day he is fine and the next he is totally different.

Maybe not but i've seen it happen.

What are the temps and what did you use to measure?

-Brandon

 

[alyel]

This is a pic 2 days after we got them. Piper is on the left. Gunner is on the right. The guy told us they were the same age.

This is a pic from a week ago. Gunner is on the left, Piper on the right. She's a hog. If you fed her 500 crickets she'd finish each one.

 

[alyel]

His basking spot is about 95. He is on the cool side in the corner SO much that it worries me, so sometimes I will pick him up and place him under his basking spot. In case he HAS eaten something, he needs to digest it......
I'm about to measure the cool side temp.
We have a digital zoo med temp w/ a probe..

Pretty much all day he is in the SAME spot in the tank in the same position. If he's not, he's clawing the cage or trying to hide from me or Jason or crickets....

 

[Sangheili]

Do you have a big enough hide for him? That could be the problem. I made mine a hide out of sandstone slabs I found in the prairie behind my house, he uses them as basking rocks mostly though, but occasionally he hides under it, mostly if the cats are prowling around.
Since he's still youngish, his basking temp should be around 100-110, at least that's what I've read. A more experienced beardie owner can tell you more exact temps.
OR He may be impacted if he doesn't look like he's eating, if you keep him on sand that could be the issue.
I would get a fecal done if you haven't already, just in case and so you can rule out parasites if that's the problem.
I'm just guessing, someone else who's more experienced could probably tell you more.

On a different note, they are very pretty <3 I love that orange!

 

[alyel]

He has this tree thing that he hides under/behind. It is more than big enough for him. He is just a little thing! We don't use sand. We don't have anything on the bottom right now. Their new enclosures have tile. I use tile for my adult. I think he eats when we're not home. I don't think he likes to in front of us to be honest. Because I'll dump some crickets in there and much later on I will check to see if there are any left or hiding in his tree (I shake it) and there are none. Sooo they went SOMEwhere! lol. I will try a lightbulb with a higher wattage then and try to get the temps up 10-15 more degrees. But I don't see how that would make him act the way he is :-/

 

[alyel]

On a different note, they are very pretty <3 I love that orange!

Thank you! They are pretty. I am happy with their colors. My adult that I've had for a few years is just a ....regular (?) beardie. Lol. I don't know what they're called. She's just white/tan. But she'll always be my baby

 

[Beardednoob]

On his cool side or where he is most of the time I would place a low wattage bulb with a small dome, preferably a dome placed on a light stand. So you can give him light, not really for the heat since we are talking 10 gallon tank. Do you take him out separately from Piper? So you get your alone time with him, try feeding him with tongs. This can help build a bond, or you can do what I do and feed them from your hand. Just some thoughts.
Oh and they are two very pretty dragons too. Gunner is a little cute guy, lol.

 

[alyel]

I don't think the top of the cage is big enough for 2 domes with the uvb there lol. He will be in his new enclosure within a couple of days so I'm hoping that will help. He and Piper are separated. They have been for a while now. But yes we take them out separately. Oh, when he's out he loves it. He loves us. He wants to climb and explore and run rampant. Then back in his tank he goes all weird again.

 

[Beardednoob]

Well lol sounds somewhat like Des except Des doesn't sit in a corner all day, he has his own spot for that near his basking area so he still gets his heat and UVB and what not. But Des loves being out of the tank. He explores gets into mischief and all that. Maybe just let your beardie out more. Sounds kinda like he his throwing a fit to be honest. In his pictures yes hes small but, all BD's grow at different rates. Might he be the runt?

 

[diamc]

Hi, what gorgeous beardies, love the coloring.

Could you fill us in on the wattage of the basking bulb you're using now? When you take the tank temps, how long are you waiting before getting the final reading? I know you said the basking temp is 98, what is the cool side temp?

Is the Repti-Sun 10.0 a strip fluorescent or coil/compact bulb? What is the distance of it? Is there paper towels or anything in the bottom of the tank or is it just the glass?

Even though he can't see your adult female, he can smell her and knows she's there. Can you move his tank somewhere else so that he isn't near and can't see either beardie?

Since he is so tiny, I would recommend that you not feed him anymore supers because they have a hard shell that makes digesting them very difficult for a baby. They are fine for an adult 15+ inches though. When you feed the crickets, I would make sure to only put a few in at a time. If the crickets are jumping a lot, that could be stressing him out. To slow the crickets down, you could put 1/2 dozen in a ziploc bag & place in the frig for a few minutes, then feed them.

Rather than moving him into the larger tank now, as long as the temps and everything are good, I would hold off because otherwise, it will cause more relocation stress which he doesn't need right now. Getting a fecal checked would also be a good idea just to be safe.

 

[Beardednoob]

What is Gunner's night time temps?

 

[alyel]

We use a 60 watt bulb. I waited like an hour for the temps. The cool side is probably too cool. It's like 75. Which I don't see how that is possible...it's a small tank. You would think it would warmer than that. The Reptisun is a strip bulb. I have no idea what the distance is...it sits on the top. However big a 10 gallon tank is from top to bottom is the distance! Lol. It's just bare on the bottom. Same as Piper's. I don't really have anywhere else to move him! We have a TINY apartment lol. But when they're all in their new tanks he won't be near her at all... I didn't plan on feeding him anymore supers. I just wanted to see if he would freak out over them too but he didn't. I'll try freezing the crickets. Do you know what age they can eat dubias? We are trying to start a colony.
His nighttime temps are whatever it is in the apartment. 65 ish?