venting a little about care issues

[Quelaag]

Sadly a lot of people believe what pet shop employees say. And yeah, they're not all dumb, but overall they probably haven't done enough research to fully know what it takes to raise a Beardie. Heck, I didn't know it would take that much research and I'm still researching and learning new things about them every day. Some of the learning experience also comes form simply raising one and I highly doubt that all of the employees at pet stores have raised a Beardie.

I don't know what training they put their employees through, but I assume it's just a basic run down or something? People need to know that they are not experts and that care knowledge needs to be researched. Seriously. I should have probably researched before getting my Beardie, but as soon as he came home I started looking for any site I could to research.

I'm glad to hear that you know your stuff though and I'm sorry if your Grandpa's giving you a hard time. I guess it's better than some of my family though! They hate reptiles and definitely would think I'm crazy for spending the money that I've spent on Haru so far; so at least he seems more caring. And like others have said, it's also about preference sometimes and trial and error. I personally use this site as a guide though because everyone here is so friendly and knows what they're talking about and they've helped me so much up here. I've never gotten a rude response to any dumb question I've had and everyone seems to be very supportive of each other. I love it.

 

[Stolzieren]

so my grandpa is utterly convinced that the pet shop lady knows everything. she said that just 80 degrees is fine for poncho and that she "NEEDS" sand so he bought digestable sand for her and everything and says the ceramic tile is WRONG!! he says I can do whatever I want though so I'm leaving the tiles because I never trust sand and besides it's so much easier to clean up her poop and make sure there's no bacteria left

he says he believes the pet shop lady over you all on the forums and I said "why would you believe her when the people on these forums have been raising these lizards for years?" and he still won't listen :roll: old people and their distrust of the internet lmao

he says because the other owner had her on sand that means it's fine and she should be on sand because she was on it in the wild blah blah blah

First of all I want to say you have a beautiful beardie!! I am so glad you are open minded enough not to believe everything the pet store employees tell you. I have been in your shoes. Infact when I got my Zoey I had everything wrong (except for her cage!). I wish I had kept count of how many times I'd gone back to a pet store to return things that were just flat out WRONG. Unfortunately they are not trained properly but do believe they know EVERYTHING there is to know, plus some. :roll: lol You are so right about the sand (as beardies lick to get familiar with their surroundings (as opposed to a dog who would sniff with their nose). I made the mistake of getting those red lights too....the pet store guy convinced me that my beardie "couldn't see the red light and it would not keep her awake. We proved that wrong in 2 seconds! I have to ask, beore I forget, what type of thermometer do you use? It wouldn't hurt to increase the basking spot temps to at least 102 for easier digestion.

Beardies do have access to sand in the wild, but their life span is also closer to 3 years as opposed to the life span of a dog in captivity. There is only one time that it is okay to purchase sand for your beardie and that is if you have a female about to lay eggs (but in that case it will be mixed with dirt and water also).

It was said before that the difference between listening to a pet store employee and those of us on this site is we have nothing to gain by selling you a $40+ basking bulb when you can get one for .50 cents. My beardie is my first also and if not for this site she would be in bad shape by now. I got mine young also she was 8 weeks old) and she will be 2 years old at the end of the month. This site has been a god's send!

I am glad you have joined us and you are doing your research! I want to thank you for listening to me ramble on. lol Like I said, I went through the same thing you are going through now and I feel your pain!

I want to congratulate you on your new beardie and feel free to ask any question, there are no stupid questions.

Welcome! :wave:

hey, thanks for the warm welcome! I'm so glad I joined this site, everyone has been nice and so helpful! without you all I would've been doing things wrong as well. I want to make poncho's experience with me the best I can

I have a digital thermometer, I was looking for a temperature gun but they did not have any in stock atm, I will have to check back another time unless the digital is fine? it seems to read the temperatures well, way better than that cheap dial thermometer that my grandpa insists is okay since the pet shop had it :roll:

I am stuck on whether to use the red light or not, the temperature drops to 70s at night in her tank if I do not use the low visible light red bulb. she seemed to sleep fine last night with it on and it was plenty warmer in there that's for sure! if everyone could give me their opinions on the red bulb that would be great...

 

[CooperDragon]

The digital thermometer is good. Just leave the probe in place for 30 min or so to get an accurate reading. The advantage of the guns is speed rather than accuracy. If you have temps in the 70s at night, that is definitely warm enough without needing additional heat. You only need a CHE if you want additional daytime heat or if your nighttime temps go below 65 or so.

 

[Stolzieren]

The digital thermometer is good. Just leave the probe in place for 30 min or so to get an accurate reading. The advantage of the guns is speed rather than accuracy. If you have temps in the 70s at night, that is definitely warm enough without needing additional heat. You only need a CHE if you want additional daytime heat or if your nighttime temps go below 65 or so.

good to hear! I'll definitely need a CHE in the winter time but it hasn't dropped below 65 at night so I guess that's fine. it's usually 71 o 72 if I remember right.

 

[Tonja]

Just a word about a ceramic heat emitter most don't think to talk about because it can be so insignificant. When you get a new CHE, plug it in and let it be, you may notice a burning smell to it. This is normal so don't panic over it catching fire or anything. I put mine on a lamp stand and let them burn in over my kitchen sink where there is a window. The smell is not overpowering but could be to a beardie. So burn it in safely and remember they do smell at first. Mine did at least.

 

[Stolzieren]

Just a word about a ceramic heat emitter most don't think to talk about because it can be so insignificant. When you get a new CHE, plug it in and let it be, you may notice a burning smell to it. This is normal so don't panic over it catching fire or anything. I put mine on a lamp stand and let them burn in over my kitchen sink where there is a window. The smell is not overpowering but could be to a beardie. So burn it in safely and remember they do smell at first. Mine did at least.

ahh i do have a big phobia of fire so that's a bit frightening! but as long as it wont catch fire I think I can handle it

 

[Tonja]

they are safe I just wanted you to be aware so you don't panic,

 

[traceyb73]

It's frustratingly common in so many pets that folks choose to believe/accept wrong information for whatever reason (and there are many). I'm going to have to agree who the poster above that as far as pet store go, money is the bottom line. The only thing that is "needed" is the petstore to sell you more junk. If your pet dies, well they sell new ones of those too. After all it's "just" and animal.

I'm glad to hear that you are free to choose your own husbandry though, so you can still make good choices. There is a lot of scientific literature to back up a lot of what is recommended here, and many keepers on the internet are pretty savvy about strong up to date on the latest. I wouldn't be surprised if many petshop employees learn everything they know from the back of the boxes.

I'm one of those people who points out the error of a (pet store employee's) ways. lol I've gotten into so many "animated conversations" (the polite way of saying I don't stop until they agree or throw me out :lol: ).A year ago when I was buying my beardie a new UV light (I get them every 4-5 months), I had it in my hand, walking to the checkout counter when she this lady walked up to me and INSISTED I had the wrong one. Luckily I knew better and I told her she was wrong and WHY. Ever since she has literature on why the RIGHT one IS the right one. Now she's been telling my daughter new, off the wall things. I was so fuming mad about the stupidity that I called my vet's office (we know each other well enough that I can call and vent about these things. LOL). The vet tech was so sweet in listening to what they are saying now. She used to work at a pet store and knows the stupidity. I strongly suggest before you go into ANY pet store, you do your research first and go in there with a list (written down) so they don't convince you you need $100 worth of stuff that is just outright WRONG.

Ok, I have to do it...since we are venting here, I have to tell you all what this "MANAGER" is saying about a customer's beardie. Every time we buy crickets she asks my daughter what we are feeding. The kid says a beardie and this lady tells her she is overfeeding our beardie and tells her (my daughter) this story....

she says she has a customer whose beardie is now PARALYZED FROM OVERFEEDING. She said, and I quote, "the fat pads on the beardie's back legs got so big (from overfeeding) that she lost the use of her back legs". Ok, for those of you who are reading this and are still learning, they don't have fat pads in their back legs (it's all muscle) and this is impossible. I have a beardie who turns 2 years old in a week or so and I feed her as much as she can eat in about a 10-15 min. period of time. Please don't believe the things they tell you. It's like they are trying to scare you into believing what they have to say!!

Thank you for listening to my rant. :roll: I am going to go over there myself next time and have a talk with this woman. I've just had it with all of this rumor starting, scare tactics. Ugh, I love people. lol

 

[felixandfideaux]

I agree with you on the internet vs. pet store lady. I like to get several similar answers before I go with changing a set up. I have a little library to refer to as well.

Beardies are a hard keep, and it is frustrating to go to a pet store with questions, and the staff are only prepared to answer the most basic questions that I could get by simply reading the back of a product's box.

I have very little trust for the pet store as I suspect they sold me a sick beardie in the first place. Or it is very possible I made her sick, using the set up they sold me, and ignorance.

My girl is still alive, but she is not a "sunfire" which is what they said she was. And I am not entirely sure she is a girl. Which they said she was. I don't really care though. She is sweet. This forum has been helpful for me to vent, and find opinions on problems.

The tile is a great option. I hate a dirty cage. I use reptile carpet.

 

[traceyb73]

I agree with you on the internet vs. pet store lady. I like to get several similar answers before I go with changing a set up. I have a little library to refer to as well.

Beardies are a hard keep, and it is frustrating to go to a pet store with questions, and the staff are only prepared to answer the most basic questions that I could get by simply reading the back of a product's box.

I have very little trust for the pet store as I suspect they sold me a sick beardie in the first place. Or it is very possible I made her sick, using the set up they sold me, and ignorance.

My girl is still alive, but she is not a "sunfire" which is what they said she was. And I am not entirely sure she is a girl. Which they said she was. I don't really care though. She is sweet. This forum has been helpful for me to vent, and find opinions on problems.

The tile is a great option. I hate a dirty cage. I use reptile carpet.

I agree with everything you have said. My beardie was supposed to be my daughter's...she turned 18 and insisted she would take are of her. I knew nothing about reptiles and never even saw a beardie before, I had no idea what they were and how difficult the care is. They are very time consuming (to take care properly) and "her" beardie has become MY beardie. lol I have done tons of research also...you have to. My litttle one has had health issues also. I had to have her spayed in March as she started laying eggs not long after she turned a year old. She was producing approx. 30 eggs EVERY MONTH. It was just about $1,500 (which none of us have lying around) and we are still trying to get back on track financially because of it. But I would have done anything to get her feeling better again. The vet said she was shocked at how many eggs were in there and she sad it was never going to stop...she would lay every month until it killed her. Now she has an RI (again) because after the surgery her stress levels were high (she has an incision about 2/3 of the length of her body (not including tail of course). So then it cost me another $60 just for the medication which I have to inject in her back legs every 3 days for a total of 7 shots. But again, I would do anything to make sure she is happy and healthy. I wish getting a pet and having children should require a license (you need one to drive a car but not take care of a living thing???). Ok, now I'm getting too close to politics so it's time to stop this rant. lol

I know nothing about how to identify colors. I did see Zoey's dad when I went to pick her up from the breeder and his colors are stunning...he is pastel (not sure what the actual term is for that) and Zoey has alot of orange, including the most beautiful brilliant orange beard/chin, but I didn't care what color she was. All I wanted was a healthy little one!

I don't know what I would have done without this site. It's been a godsend! There are so many brilliant minds here and so many have helped me so much. We truly had everything wrong when we first got her. Only think right was her viv. I can't thank everyone here enough. You've helped me take care of this beautiful, sweetheart of a beardie who I wouldn't trade for anything!! <3

 

[felixandfideaux]

Beardies can be spayed? That would be so awesome if it wasn't $1500. Mine hasn't started laying eggs, but I am not looking forward to her special time of the year...

 

[traceyb73]

Beardies can be spayed? That would be so awesome if it wasn't $1500. Mine hasn't started laying eggs, but I am not looking forward to her special time of the year...

I HAD to get mine spayed or she would have died. She started laying EVERY MONTH not long after she turned a year old and she never stopped...she would lay approx. 30 eggs each month too. When the vet called me to tell me how the surgery went she said that she never saw anything like it (and she does many of these) and that her body was never going to stop producing. This is very rare and it will kill them as it is like a woman carrying a child. The child takes what it needs if the mother has enough to share or not...he eggs require alot, especially calcium and it will eventually take it all from the beardie.

These surgeries are difficult on the beardie but if it has to be done, it has to be done. If your female lays eggs a couple times a year, you have nothing to worry about. Many females never produce eggs in their lives, especially if there isn't a male around.

 

[traceyb73]

I just realized I am repeating myself...sorry about that.

 

[jarich]

Just a word about a ceramic heat emitter most don't think to talk about because it can be so insignificant. When you get a new CHE, plug it in and let it be, you may notice a burning smell to it. This is normal so don't panic over it catching fire or anything. I put mine on a lamp stand and let them burn in over my kitchen sink where there is a window. The smell is not overpowering but could be to a beardie. So burn it in safely and remember they do smell at first. Mine did at least.

ahh i do have a big phobia of fire so that's a bit frightening! but as long as it wont catch fire I think I can handle it

It is best to have all heaters of any kind on a thermostat. That way if they overheat or are faulty in anyway, the thermostat kicks in and shuts them off before you have a fire or other issue.

 

[KarenInCA]

she says she has a customer whose beardie is now PARALYZED FROM OVERFEEDING. She said, and I quote, "the fat pads on the beardie's back legs got so big (from overfeeding) that she lost the use of her back legs". Ok, for those of you who are reading this and are still learning, they don't have fat pads in their back legs (it's all muscle) and this is impossible. I have a beardie who turns 2 years old in a week or so and I feed her as much as she can eat in about a 10-15 min. period of time. Please don't believe the things they tell you. It's like they are trying to scare you into believing what they have to say!!

Thank you for listening to my rant. :roll: I am going to go over there myself next time and have a talk with this woman. I've just had it with all of this rumor starting, scare tactics. Ugh, I love people. lol

This woman has misinformation, but half truths. The abdominal fat pads are on the underside of the belly along both outer sides, and they are tube like vessels that run down to the back legs. But I don't know if they are related to paralyzed legs. If a dragon eats something too big for it to digest, or becomes impacted from overeating and not pooping, their back legs CAN become paralyzed.
This is just one more thing that is cause for misinformation, not intentional but heard incorrectly, and then wanting to help someone else.

I can completely understand your grandfather's concern about trusting a pet store owner/manager/employee over a forum of people who do not work in the petshop industry.
It's similar to having a medical issue and going online to check it out and finding so much information that eventually a wart on the foot leads to death.
I take lunesta sometimes to help me sleep, and before I got my job, I had to take a drug test, I looked up lunesta and if it will show up negatively in a job drug test, and found a site that stated that lunesta can give a negative result that is similar to heroine. I became extremely paranoid about passing the drug test just because of that! Just an FYI, according to my MD that is NOT true information.
Your grandfather, however needs to keep in mind, that this is similar but not the same. The petshop worker does not specialize in ONLY bearded dragons. (S)he did not go to school to get a degree in dragons, and it's probably even safe to say that (s)he does not even have one at home to take care of. They are also not a herp vet. Obviously, neither are most of us. However, we have found things out based on trial and error, and our highest goal is to have our own PERSONAL dragon be safe and healthy. Each of us is here because of our own dragons that we care about and have a vested interest in.

I got my dragon from a store that specializes in ONLY reptiles. They also have a reptile museum in a neighboring town. However, every time I go into that store, I give OTHER information to the patrons than what the store employees give. I stared with a loose substrate because I was told that was what they need. That loose substrate is $21 a bag, and you need a new bag every time you clean out the viv. the stuff is stinky, and if water is spilled it absorbs and stays damp, causing bacteria. The dragon poop will stay on some of it till it's completely cleaned out, obviously. and if feeding live feeders in there, they burry themselves into the loose substrate, coming out at night and possibly chewing on the dragon. It's a HORRIBLE choice, IMO, but if you talk to the employees, they ask all the time, "do you need more substrate? It should be changed regularly!" Of course it should be, unless you have tiles!
One of the employees talked to a new dragon owner and said, "you should get a leash, they love to go on walks, mine goes on walks with me all the time" this told me she probably doesn't REALLY have a dragon. They obviously do NOT like to go on walks like dogs, but rather IF they will tolerate a leash, it's more to keep them from running off if they are in the backyard with you, than to "go on a walk" in the neighborhood. This was a brand new BD owner, and as far as he knew, he was getting a substitute for a dog. And THIS IS A REPTILE STORE!!!!!!! If anything, one would think they are getting CORRECT info as a new BD owner from a reptile store employee.
They do what they are taught to do by other employees. They might like the reptiles, but just like the misinformation that the employee gave to tracey's daughter, and the employee gave to me and another customer...they have been trained by other employees and do not have a special interest in keeping ONE or TWO BDs healthy, but their vested interest is keeping the shop owner happy. Cutting corners with the reptiles they have on display, for sale, is often a part of keeping the store owner happy. So, if you would look at the dragon on display, you might think that several can be kept together and worse yet, that maybe you only need a basking lamp and not UVB and the feeders might be the cheapest and not the best, without dusting them first. And giving misinformation is something that makes them feel knowledgable but it's not something they found out by keeping their own BD healthy, but rather info they get from the owner to sell more items, or from other employees or customers...like trying to sell $21 loose substrate all the time, that's probably a very high mark up, and if they tell you to get tiles, they LOSE the income on selling the substrate, so they are not going to suggest tiles, or give you the choice to make your own educated decision. They just aren't. And maybe they don't realize there's an option, if they've been told.. "this is what dragons need for substrate"
The old saying GIGO...."garbage in, garbage out", applies to more than just computer data entry. It also applies to giving advise.
Not everyone here is going to give correct information. the more info I give, the more I have a chance to being wrong. In fact, in the past couple of days, I've been given information from a couple of people who tell me very nicely that maybe I need to reanalyze my way of thinking about what I am doing. And that's okay too. That's what's great about having so many people giving their advise. There's usually someone who can correct misinformation quickly.
And what works for one dragon might not work for another. But gathering as much info about what works and what does not work, and knowing the variation of personalities of dragons, makes it so much easier to raise a healthy dragon, than just lumping them all together and pushing one person's advise as gospel. Keep your ears open, and don't discount the advise of a shop worker automatically, but use your own rational reasoning to make decisions.