Unusual problem, please help...

[kolo]

Hello fellow bearded dragon lovers, I am need of some help.

Me and my girlfriend have a lovely little 18 month bearded dragon named Harry, we got him when he was about 4 months old, he had slight calcium defficiency when we took him for his first check up, we noticed that his front legs were a little limp so we got him straight to the vets. Since the vets he has plodded along at a nice pace, really big eater but always turns his nose up at veg and salad.

About 2 months ago me and my girlfriend noticed that he was not moving as much as he was, he continued this for the next few days and we also noticed that front legs had become very limp, to a point were he was using his elbows to shift forwards, but his backlegs are fine.I was worried that it could be impaction, but he was defecating regularly and his appetite was still good. We took him straight to the vets and embarassingly we found out that he was fat. We had blood tests done, x rays taken and his fat pads were about twice the size they should be, the vet was concerned with the damage that could be caused to the liver and gave him a shot of laurabolin, he also gave us baytril to administer because his globulin levels were very high, which would indicate infection. We mentioned the issue with the forearms and he looked closely at the x ray and said his bones were perfectly formed so no defficiency there...

We were told to put him on a vegetarian diet and although he hates it, he lost 8 grams in weight in a week, he has been fine and looks perky as ever. We went back to the vets and they said he looked great and happy, but when we raised the issue with the forearms, there was still no idea why the hell he cant move his forearms. We have another appointment in a week and a half, and they said that they may need to do further tests to find out what is wrong. Is there anybody that has had a similar problem? It really gets little Harry down, he is such a ray of light and we hate to see him get all upset when he cant move.

Ashley

 

[snowdrop]

Hi, i'm so sorry to here about the problem, my friend has a beadred with a similar problem, but it was cos he had had no calcium. Could it still be that? Are you putting powder on the veg as well? My vet had said to me that dusting crix is'n't always enough and beardies don't digest the shell so don't get the full benefit of the calci powder.

Me friend has had to force feed the bd veg for 3 weeks but with the cali dust on the veggies he slowly getting better, he also has very little power in his front legs.

 

[kolo]

Thankyou for the response, he is on a vegetarian diet and we have to force feed him veg, yeah he is still getting calcium, his front legs are limp as ever and its really upsetting watching him trying to move, he just gives up. The vet has told us to change his bulb from 10.0 to 5.0, its due to change in the next few weeks. Did your friends beardie have breathing troubles?

Ash

 

[diamc]

Hi Ash, sorry to hear about all these problems. I don't understand why the vet would say to change from a 10.0 uvb to a 5.0. What is the brand of UVB you're using, is it a fluorescent or coil/compact bulb? How old is it and what is the distance of it?

What is the brand of calcium you're using and how often are you using that as well as vitamins?

 

[Drache613]

Hello Ashley,

The first thing I would like to see is a copy of the blood test if that is ok. I would like to see the levels of everything so I can give a second opinion.
That is indicative of a neurological problem, a tumor possibly on the spine or cervical that would mess up neuromuscular function or metabolic bone disease.
We do need to know the brand of UVB you are using. I do not agree with decreasing from a 10 to a 5 however. Also, the type of calcium as Diane asked & the frequency given is important.
Can you post some pictures of him? How long is he & how much does he weigh?


Tracie

 

[kolo]

Hey,

According to the vet, he seems to be getting too much calcium in his diet and he has calci sand, so the vet wants to cut his UV to 5.0 to stop him producing so much, he has a flourescent UV strip lamp made by Repti-Glo, the bulb was max 5 months old, but now he has a new bulb at 5.0, as the vet requested... It is about 7-8 inches from where Harry usually sits, his food is dusted with nutrobal about every third day at the moment, before the vet appt, it was every day or 2. His food was always bug grubbed with greens and a formulated mixture, now he is on a veggie diet and we have to force feed him as he is a picky little guy, he still has an appetite because I got worried one day and showed him a locust, he thrust forward to snap at it... Even with no forearm strength he still moves pretty fast using just his back legs.

This is really baffling, he has had an X-Ray and the vet said his bones formed perfectly and he cant see any issues, then he put it down to the fact that he is chubby and could be causing the issue, but he is losing weight an there is absolutely no improvement. AHHHH

Thanks

Ash

 

[diamc]

Hi Ash, I'm afraid that I have to disagree with the vet about decreasing the strength of the UVB. The Repti-Glo 5.0 isn't a very strong bulb at all, not strong enough for a bearded dragon. If it was the Repti-Sun 5.0 it would be a little better but the Repti-Sun 10.0 is the best fluorescent to use. I do have to agree that when you were dusting with calcium every day, that was indeed too much calcium for an 18 mo old and his body was not able to process that much. At the age of 18 months, we recommend using calcium 3 days a wk.

What is his length and weight? How much weight has he lost? I understand that he was overweight, but did the vet recommend NO live feeders at all anymore? How many live feeders a week were you feeding before you took him to the vet? We suggest feeding an adult 35 large feeders (like superworms) a week or 50 small feeders (like crickets) a week which shouldn't cause any liver or kidney problems as long as they are healthy and not morbidly obese. What veggies have you been feeding him?

As far as using calci-sand, that is one of the very worst substrates on the market. Since it does contain calcium, it encourages them to lick it and it hardens like cement in their bellies over time. It makes that type of impaction just about impossible to pass if able to at all. Was your vet aware that you are using calci-sand? I really recommend that you replace that with reptile carpet, non-adhesive shelf liner, or slate tiles as those would be much safer and also prevent bacteria from forming.

It's strange that the xray didn't show any spinal issues or any bone problems. Before he lost the strength in his front legs had you noticed any twitching or muscle spasms? If you could post the results of the blood tests here, that would be helpful. Would you be able to post any pictures of him?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

You were using the Reptiglo 10 tube bulb right? That bulb is not very good either, I hate to say. It emits low wavelength of UVB which can be hazardous but also is not conducive to D3 synthesis.
I am thinking that since he has not had good lighting, his body is starting to pull calcium from his bones to stabilize his blood calcium levels. Initially, you will not be able to see that on an x-ray. It happens over time, & eventually, the bones start to demineralize as well which then would show up on x-ray. Since it is a slow process, it is often missed. Do you know if they did an onized calcium he test? That is what indicates the D3 reading in the bones, basically.
That would cause the calcium levels to possibly be a little higher, because the chemistry is out of whack since the body is having to overcompensate.
Do you use just the nutrabol or do you use straight calcium supplementation also?

Tracie

 

[kolo]

Hey.

Thanks for the response, he has lost about 15grams in 4 weeks, he is 13.8 inches long and currently around 215 grams, he was 231 when we first had him diagnosed. The vet recommended that in this recovery period we feed him no live insects, he is currently eating peas ( which is the only thing that he takes without force feeding ), he turns his nose up at everything else, we have gently force fed him salad, rocket, cress, babyleaves, runner beans, cauliflower.

We told the vet about the calci-sand and he put that as a possible cause of high calcium levels, he informed us to remove it and put tissue down for this period, which we have done. He didnt twitch but in the last 8 weeks he tremors when he is on a flat surface, It seems that one day he just lost the strength in his forearms.

I am pretty useless with tech stuff so I dont know how to post pictures, if you have a contact email address I can email the blood tests and pictures of him.

Thankyou for your help and your time.

Ash

 

[Drache613]

Hello Ash,

I will PM you my email so you can send me the blood tests if possible.
Here is a thread to help show you how to post pictures, it is very easy!
viewtopic.php?f=30&t=37103

I would cut the cauliflower out though as that is high in oxalates which interferes with calcium absorption. How is he doing today?
Has he improved at all yet, & is he more active now?
I still think he needs just a little bit of protein though to balance him out some along with some veggies. The peas are fine, so maybe get some squash baby food as well to feed him.

Tracie