Two females mating?

[christywoowoo]

Let me begin by saying that there is no chance that one of my beardies is male. They are both 100% confirmed females.

So I heard them thrashing around and thought they were fighting (Which happens rarely, but occurs.)
and so I turned around and saw Rusty on top of Deja. Now this wasn't dominance mounting, I know what that looks like. Instead, Rusty had her cloaca touching Deja's, both of which were potruding. It looked exactly like a male mounting a female minus hemipeens.

My first instinct was to try to wiggle her off and at least seperate their cloacas. As I did so, Rusty secreted a liquid and detatched her jaws from the back of Deja's head.

Can somebody please explain to me what just happened, why, and if I need to expect eggs?

 

[ruben0311]

interestingly there have been some studies done that suggest that beardies can change their sex... so that could be some type of emergence of that type of change. Don't worry im sure she wont sprout manly bits, however that is some very interesting behavior cues as to the factuality of the studies findings.

As a great mind once said... Life -- finds a way. 8)

 

[kingofnobbys]

Separate them ... you are going to need another enclosure ASAP , this was a dominance fight , nothing else.

You are lucky neither was killed by the other.

 

[kingofnobbys]

interestingly there have been some studies done that suggest that beardies can change their sex... so that could be some type of emergence of that type of change. Don't worry im sure she wont sprout manly bits, however that is some very interesting behavior cues as to the factuality of the studies findings.

As a great mind once said... Life -- finds a way. 8)

Sorry but it was males becoming females in the wild during extended periods of very hot weather. Not females converting to males.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070419-sex-lizards.html

This process results in female offspring, because the key gene is on the so-called Z sex chromosome, of which male lizards have two and females only one.

Deactivation of the gene therefore turns a male (ZZ) into a female (WZ).

 

[ruben0311]

interestingly there have been some studies done that suggest that beardies can change their sex... so that could be some type of emergence of that type of change. Don't worry im sure she wont sprout manly bits, however that is some very interesting behavior cues as to the factuality of the studies findings.

As a great mind once said... Life -- finds a way. 8)

Sorry but it was males becoming females in the wild during extended periods of very hot weather. Not females converting to males.
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/04/070419-sex-lizards.html

This process results in female offspring, because the key gene is on the so-called Z sex chromosome, of which male lizards have two and females only one.

Deactivation of the gene therefore turns a male (ZZ) into a female (WZ).

yup you are correct sir. then perhaps it is just the genetic gender presenting within a different physical gender

 

[christywoowoo]

Separate them ... you are going to need another enclosure ASAP , this was a dominance fight , nothing else.

You are lucky neither was killed by the other.

I know what dominance fights look like, and this was not one. They happen rarely and neither seriously injures the other. I keep track of the uvb, food, and vitamins that each gets,they are both very healthy so I see no reason to separate them unless Rusty is becoming a male as some are suggesting.

They always end fairly quickly with my more dominant reptile poking the smaller one in the back of the head while resting atop her. That's not at all what this looked like, this looked exactly like mating behavior with both cloacas protruding and pressed together.

You did not witness what occurred so please don't pretend you know without a doubt what this was.

 

[ruben0311]

lily is a cutie

 

[christywoowoo]

Images of Rusty, if my ability to sex a dragon is totally off

Note that the only time she has ever black bearded was when she was very young and pissed off at me.

 

[ruben0311]

looks like a female to me, but im no expert... ever try the flashlight test?

 

[Rampagingraptor]

Why are you keeping them together if there are obvious signs of previous dominance? Seems like an unnecessary risk.
Looks female to me, as well. Just the one bumb in the middle.

 

[christywoowoo]

Why are you keeping them together if there are obvious signs of previous dominance? Seems like an unnecessary risk.
Looks female to me, as well. Just the one bumb in the middle.

I understand what you mean, but there is always someone in the house monitoring them and as I've said before any dominance issues never get out of hand and they never have even opened their mouths at each other. They are overall always well behaved.

This thread is not about dominance fighting though, it's about what seems to be in all respects mating behavior.

And note that it hasn't happened since I made this thread.

 

[Rampagingraptor]

Its still possible it is a dominance thing, though. While it might not be the same thing and yours show obvious sexual actions, it might still be a form of undocumented dominance or something like that. I'm not saying that it is for sure, just that it still might be. I see no reason to dismiss the possibility yet.
Either way, its not something I have ever heard of personally. It might be some form of sex change, though entirely unprecedented in this scenario. Maybe one of the mods or other highly experienced members will know what this is? I would keep an eye out either way to see if it happens again and keep us informed, if only to see if this is something entirely new.

 

[ruben0311]

you mean like it only happened one time? the "mating" thing? totally up to you on how you keep your buddies, as long as there are plenty of hides and basking spots and feeding isn't disturbed dominance shouldnt cause too much harm, maybe a missing toe or something. If it's a common thing for them to get it on take some pictures... sounds weird saying that... i'd be interested to see.

 

[christywoowoo]

you mean like it only happened one time? the "mating" thing? totally up to you on how you keep your buddies, as long as there are plenty of hides and basking spots and feeding isn't disturbed dominance shouldnt cause too much harm, maybe a missing toe or something. If it's a common thing for them to get it on take some pictures... sounds weird saying that... i'd be interested to see.

Yeah I'll definitely been keeping an eye out for it. I know that if Rusty was male she would be doing it very often.

Rusty is about 3 years old while Deja is like 2 and a half.

 

[HKzForDayz]

Even if there are no physical signs of dominance , it will always affect your dragons mentally, even when you cant tell.
Bearded dragons are soliditary animals. They ONLY come together to mate. To house two together is both unnatural and unfair. Tbe exception to this is the Rankin dragons, but those are actually a different species that just look like mini beardies. They actually do very well in multiples.