Too much calcium?

[FJM]

Hi,

My 6.5 yr old (Malys) stopped eating a couple weeks ago and it seemed like she was having problems pooping...pushing with nothing really coming out. She also started dragging one leg. Lots of warm baths and producing nothing except grey-ish jelly-like stuff (with urates), i took her to the vet last week and they had her for an entire day and she did poop. I was told it was a regular, solid movement/plug. That night she had more grey-ish, runny poop and her appetite hasn't picked up. They also took xrays and bloodwork. The bloodwork came back perfect but the vet posted the info on a forum for vets and they thought that from the xrays it looked like she has a calcium deficiency, even though the bloodwork said otherwise. Her fecal test came back negative for parasites. She's not really dragging that leg since her poop at the vets but its not exactly 100% either.

So, the vet prescribed a calcium supplement to be ongoing, Calcium Borogluconate is the name on the bottle. I'm just wondering if it'll be harmful to give this to her if it's not what's going on with her? Her blood work came back perfect, so not really sure what to do.

At the moment i can only get her to eat superworms and very very little movements at a time. She honestly doesn't seem stressed at all which is weird for her. I picked up some soy yogurt last night to see if that helps.

She's currently in a 70G+ viv, a 125w MVB on her basking side and a regular household 60W on the other (no coils). Her basking temp is usually between 90-94 degl She normally eats mostly squash and green beans with Superworms, dipped in a calcium and herbal supplement, on the weekends only. Her substrate is newspaper. (did i forget anything?) Until this i've never had any health issues with her, other than an eye discharge that i'm also currently treating with a prescription eye-drop (gentamycin).

I don't want to make matters worse so any input on the prescribed calcium supplement would be great...thanks!
Florrie

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. How are you taking the temps? Is that the temp on the basking spot? That's to low of a temp for beardies to digest properly. They need to be at least 98 to 100.

 

[FJM]

OK, I can increase it. I used to lurk here a lot when i first got her and the going temp for an adult was 90-ish. I'm using a digital thermometer on her basking area.

I feel a small sharp lump at her vent ...just noticed it

 

[Drache613]

Hello Florrie,

Do you have a copy of her blood work?
Which MVB are you using, the Solar Glo 125watt by Exoterra? How close is it to her?
The basking temps should ideally be a range of 95-105 for adults. Previously, you were giving calcium 2 times per week? That probably wasn't enough.
I think the liquid calcium will be fine for awhile. What is the strength of the solution & the dose for her?
I wouldn't dust with the powder though while you are giving the liquid calcium.

Many times the blood work can show normal but on a low normal. It can be just enough to be starting to affect the bones, but not enough to be seen early enough on blood tests. Based on the x-rays, they may have seen some thinning of the hipbone area or cervical section to indicate some start of bone weakening.
It sounds like she is eating pretty good right now. Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[FJM]

No, i didn't get a copy of that but i do have the xrays. I'll post them if it helps. I'm using the MegaRay 100W MVB and i try to keep her within 12 inches, but it may be a bit further. I find that one hotter than the 125W from Exoterra. I do have one of those as well but i switched it in May to try & help solve and eye issue. But it will be easier to keep her withing the 12" with those temps.

I don't have the bottle with me but if i remember correctly it was 23% and i'm supposed to give her .8ml a day for two weeks and it decreases after that and ongoing.

I felt something in her vent area last night that felt abnormal so i made another appointment for today. It may be just that she's a bit dehydrated and something protruding that's usually padded, but I want to make sure it's ok. She's not really eating like she was yet, but I am getting some worms in her and some of the Critical Care Oxbow formula they gave me last week, so she's not currently starving.

Thank you so much for your reply! I'm not really sure how much the vet knows about beardies so I feel better having your opinion, although he seems knowledgeable and very loving towards animals. I'll start the calcium tonight.

 

[FJM]

when i take her in later today I'll see if they'll give me a copy of her blood work

 

[FJM]

Well, I had Malys to the vet last week and the lump I felt was her pelvic bone. They advised me just to keep her on the calcium, the baths and feedings. So, I’ve been able to give her the .8ml each day mixed with squash baby food and some critical care formula (and water).

She was doing ok until last night when I came home from work she had a black beard, which is rare for her. Tonight, the black beard again and sunken fat packs and eyes. She looks very bad, I put her in the bath right away and she did drink a little but didn’t hold her head up. She pooped in the bath with what seemed like a lot of blood. I couldn’t get her to eat tonight, for the first time. I called the vet and made another appt for tomorrow afternoon, but not her regular doc.

I changed her bulb tonight back to a 2 month old 125W SolarGlo, that I had replaced with the Megaray first week of May.

I just put her to bed but not really sure how she is, and not really sure what to do

 

[Drache613]

Hello Florrie,

I am sorry I missed your posts.
How is she tonight? Her black beard isn't good at all. Were you able to get a copy of the blood tests?
What is her weight again?
The 23% is very strong so she could be getting too much. I can properly dose it for you if I had her weight.
The .8mls seems very high for that strength of calcium.
Do you have a UVB meter to measure your old Megaray you were using?
You have switched back to the Solar glo MVB instead right now?
She has been eating the critical care & squash lately?
She wouldn't have eggs would she?

Please let us know how she is doing in the morning. I will check your thread in the morning.

Tracie

 

[FJM]

I completely forgot to mention the blood tests when i was there last week. I made a list of things to ask this time so hopefully i'll have them tonight.

Not entirely sure of her weight, but i think she was around 460g and went down to 420g when i first took her in. Last week they said she was the same... 420g.

I don't have a UV meter...can you recommend one...i was looking at them online yesterday but unsure of what to get. Yes, i switched it back to the SolarGlo because it seemed to come on suddenly and this is the only change i've made to her setup ...probably just reaching. Her body seems humped lately but she seemed to pancake a little bit yesterday after i changed it, but that may be wishful thinking.

Yes, she was eating the critical care/squash until last night (30th), but i was only getting in about 2-3ml with each feeding. She won't eat superworms anymore.

I've been thinking about eggs too...that's on the list of things to ask. I don't believe they showed up in the xrays though. If i posted the xrays would it be helpful? I was feeling her belly last night but i couldn't feel anything.

I'm up only because i couldn't sleep...so not sure how she is yet today but will post an update soon.
Thank you again Tracie!

 

[FJM]

Well, she seems to be holding her head up more today and trying to bask. I've given her two baths already this morning and was able to give her about 1.5-2ml of food too. Her beard is still black but not like the last two days.

I called and had them send me the blood test results but there are 20 attachments that they sent and not sure if you want me to post them all?? I believe they insinuate an infection somewhere, from their notes, but i really have no idea.

 

[FJM]

This is a link to the blood test results, I put them in a spreadsheet and uploaded to dropbox...not sure if it will work...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggyv0buia7nfvaa/BLOOD TEST RESULTS.xls

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ggyv0buia7nfvaa/BLOOD%20TEST%20RESULTS.xls

 

[FJM]

Stayed home with her today and babied her, but she still doesn’t seem any better. She did eat quite a bit today though. She’s still only eating babyfood and the critical care. At the doc’s tonight they’re kind of at a loss as well. She suggested and prescribed daily:
-continue with the calcium (they gave her a dose tonight since I didn’t today, and gave her fluids too)
-Fenbendazole .2ml daily (dewormer)
-Baytril .1ml daily (antibiotic)

It’s kind of a last resort effort. No one really knows what’s going on with her. I can’t stay home tomorrow but my neighbour is going to check on her and see if she’ll take some food.

Any thoughts on the meds? I gave her a dosage of each tonight (except calc.). But I guess I’ll try to separate them better tomorrow.

Thanks!

 

[Drache613]

Hello Florrie,

I will get back with you after reviewing the blood tests for you.
She isn't doing much better yet?
Did you say she seems hunched, is that all of the time or just sometimes?
It may not be eggs but just a possibility. If they didn't show up they could also be just developing follicles, too.
How often did they want to give the panacur & the baytril? Did she have worms? The panacur is a commonly given medication for most worms & baytril is a broad spectrum antibiotic for a lot of different types of infections. The baytril is strong so she may not like it much. I hope it doesn't dehydrate her too much.
Try to keep getting food & fluids into her as much as possible. How are her fat pads looking on her head?

Tracie

 

[FJM]

No, not really better, the same as yesterday. Her body does seem hunched and it's most of the time. I mentioned eggs to the vet and she did try to tell if she had them but didn't feel anything. I felt around a bit too and she really doesn't seem to.

The meds are once daily and no, worms didn't show up in the fecal. Her reasoning was that they may have been missed due to the life cycle of worms. I will hold off on the baytril till i get home from work and can keep an eye on her. Unfortunately, I can't stay home with her a second day...i could take her with me but that may be too disruptive for her. I have a neighbour that will check on her and give her some babyfood but not comfortable with her being moved around by others right now, when i'm not around, so I didn't ask him to bathe her.

The fat pads don't really look worse than yesterday, but no change, they're still a little sunken.

She only had a very small movement today (dime-size) and her movements are still runny. I'm starting to worry about her being backed up too.

Thank you!!

 

[Phoenix76]

Hi.

Sorry to hear of your dragon's dilemma. I would be terribly worried too. I own a UVB meter and they are great to have but you could just make sure you change your MVB once a year. Mark in a calender when your get a new one.

Even 10 to 15 minutes of direct sunlight outdoors goes a long way. I read that 15 minutes of Sunlight can be like 5 hours under an artificial UVB bulb. You could get her a leash for outside. I used to put mine in my temporary (covered) tortoise pen before it got too hot and sometimes I would leave her outside all day. She loved it and didn't want me to bring her inside. You have to be careful that they don't get too hot. I use a temperature gun to monitor temperature. Last week my dragon spent several hours outside in a vacant wire hamster cage that is 30l x 15d x 30h (inches) with 3 levels. She liked that too.

Keep in mind that basking temperatures need to be high enough for their bodies to utilize their calcium as well as fully digest their food. That's why you should get a temperature gun. They are quick and accurite.

From what I understand, their body has to reach a temperature of 95d. So The basking temp should probably be ~105d.

Hope she gets better. :wink: