Tiny Hatchling please help!!!

[spikerocks]

Two weeks ago, against my wishes, my son purchased a tiny hatchling at a reptile show. I am extremely concerned about this little guy and am hoping someone with more experience may be able to provide a suggestion I haven't tried already. I did speak to another member of this board who is very knowledgable in these matters and he really couldn't help but I am holding out hope someone may have been thru this before and it turned out well.

About three days ago, little Rocco completely stopped eating and won't open his eyes at all. I mean, not at all. He doesn't blink or move his eyes AT ALL! He does respond to the sound of my voice and he loves to sit in the palm of my hand. It's been two days since he ate and he only weighs 3g. I did get him to take a few licks of baby food yesterday and he drank water from a dropper.

He is no longer running around and pretty much just sits where ever I place him. He still sits up and lifts his head but that's about it. I've washed his eyes with water and still receive no response, meaning he doesn't open his eyes or blink. He climbed up my hand when I put him in a bath. He doesn't show any bilateral weakness. I just don't know if there is anything else I can do.

I've been a member on here for about a year and have 5 other beardies, my setup is perfect and his diet is as recommended. I say this in order to not waste time in this thread going over all the info that's not necessary. Many of you will remember we went thru this with our first beardie, Spike who unfortunately did not make it

I can't bear the thought that little Rocco won't make it. I've also held crickets to his mouth with tweezers and he shows no interest. I'll include a few pics to give you an idea of what he looks like. If you have any suggestions, please share. I am desperate to save this little guy!

Two weeks ago:

This morning:

Sorry for the poor pic quality but it's the best I could do this morning.

 

[sweetiepie9]

Ok, so you have to get some babyfood, I use chicken w/5 veg & organic butternut squash. So you get a plate, put a couple of tsp of each onto the plate & put a good dusting of calcium & a pinch of vitamins/minerals, then mix it together, each pile separately. Put your baby on your hand and with the other hand, pick up some of the mixture & put it against his mouth to see if he'll lick. You can leave him on a soft towel but on your lap is good, to make sure he doesn't try to get away. See if he'll eat that. Also Critical Care can be used, too. You can mix it up in the squash. Keep track of the licks. Rubio used to wrap himself around a finger, then with my other hand I'd put the chicken against his mouth & he really liked it He was 3 mo old at the time & very sick. There wasn't a baby that came through our house that wasn't fixed & that's always how I got the babies to eat. Once they were taking chunks out of my hand I'd start with a syringe. Once they were eating well from the syringe, then I'd introduce pin-head crickets again. I'd put them in a 10g tank with the crickets & see daily how much was eaten. Then I'd supplement with the babyfood. That's how I made un-healthy beardies into healthy dragons. Give that a try. He's too little to go to the vet. He's also too little to take liquid calcium, it would be just a drop, he's too small. How old is he supposed to be?

I wish all good strong, healing thoughts to you and your baby, hope this works. Let me know!
Hugs & strong healing thoughts
Deb
And please stay in touch, I've missed talking to you !

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry to hear your tiny hatchling is not doing well.
Just to add here to the questions, what type & brand of UVB light are you using? Is it a tube bulb or a compact/coil light?

Tracie

 

[spikerocks]

Deb, thx for the info. I am already doing the babyfood thing but the good news is that Rocco ate a decent amount this afternoon for me. It was still a miniscule amount (about 75 licks) but that's more than he's eaten in days so YAY!
Tracie, I was hoping you would find this thread. We are using the reptisun 10.0 tube light, same as my other dragons. There isn't any kind of swelling or discharge from his eyes or anywhere else. I am at a complete loss for why he won't open his eyes. Even when he moves around he doesn't open his eyes. He only moves a couple of inches on his basking area. When I talk to him, he turns his head so I know he hears me. Any suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[AtlasStrike]

No swelling or discharge at all? What about crustyness? It would be very odd for conjunctivitis to present without and symptoms like that, but even if he was actually blind, it wouldn't make sense to keep the eyes closed all the time. How far is the repti-sun from him? Is it possible that you got a malfunctioning tube?

I would try flushing they eye with turtle eye drops, soaking a q-tip in the drops and then dabbing at the eyes. Maybe switch the uvb with a tube from one of your older beardies to see if perhaps that has an impact. It shouldn't, but you really never know. Poor little guy. Carnivore Care would probably help him out a lot mixed with baby food. He needs as much protein as he can get.

I hope he pulls through.

 

[spikerocks]

No swelling or discharge at all? No, none.What about crustyness?No. To be honest, there really isn't anything visible wrong with the eyes. There is no swelling or drainage. He just doesn't open them. It would be very odd for conjunctivitis to present without and symptoms like that, but even if he was actually blind, it wouldn't make sense to keep the eyes closed all the time. How far is the repti-sun from him?12" Is it possible that you got a malfunctioning tube? I guess anything is possible. However, his light originally came from one of my other dragons tanks and then I got him a new one. The issue with his eyes started the day before his new reptisun came.
I hope he pulls through.Thx!

To be honest, his appetite has not been as voracious as I would have liked since my son first bought him. The first two days he didn't eat but I attributed that to relocation stress. He then started to eat but only once a day even tho I offered bugs 3x daily. He always gets greens also. Rocco did well for 2 weeks and then 3 days ago started not eating again and this thing with his eyes. Yesterday I noticed him moving his eyes under his eyelids while they were closed but today I didn't see any movement at all.

Now, I mentioned he did eat the baby food this afternoon but he refuses the crtical care. This evening when I went in to check on him, he had moved all the way to his cool side. This is the most movement he's done in days but I didn't see him, so I don't know if he had his eyes open. Yesterday he ran from me when I tried to pick him up, and he fell off his basking rock, flat on his face but again, never opened his eyes. Weird. I don't care if he's blind but I don't think that's what's going on here.

I sent a message to the breeder and am waiting to hear back. I messaged them yesterday but apparently they don't work weekends. I am afraid they will offer me a new dragon and I am not going to give up on Rocco. I am in it for the long haul but I just hope I can help him grow and thrive.

I'll try to get better pics tomorrow.

 

[sweetiepie9]

Hi Jane,
That really is a mystery as to why he won't open his eyes. I'm glad to hear he's eating a bit more. I'm at a loss as to why this would happen, if it was the light, you'd know, having 4 other dragons. Keep me posted on how he's doing. I'm glad you all are doing well.
Deb

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor Rocco. The basking light, is it directly beside the Reptisun 10 tube bulb then? Do you have a bright white light?
Sometimes, when they are ill & do not feel well, they simply refuse to open their eyes.
You are doing everything you can do to help him right now. Assist feeding him is the best thing you can do for him at the moment to help keep some weight on him.
Is he moving around at all or just laying around & lethargic?
I would try to get a fecal done on him, if possible to see if he has parasites & or worms which are making him ill.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[spikerocks]

Hello,

Poor Rocco. The basking light, is it directly beside the Reptisun 10 tube bulb then? Do you have a bright white light?Yes, Rocco has a repti-halogen bulb next to his reptisun. I check his temps with a infra red temp sensor and they are spot on. I've been keeping him warmer at night now since he has gotten sick.
Sometimes, when they are ill & do not feel well, they simply refuse to open their eyes. I'm thinking this might be the case.
You are doing everything you can do to help him right now. Assist feeding him is the best thing you can do for him at the moment to help keep some weight on him.
Is he moving around at all or just laying around & lethargic?Initially he wasn't moving around but a few inches but yesterday he moved around quite a bit more.
I would try to get a fecal done on him, if possible to see if he has parasites & or worms which are making him ill.Unfortunately, life circumstances are preventing me from getting him to the vet immediately. My vet would normally treat all my dragons for worms for their initial visit and then send home a dose of panacur I think. Is there any way I can get panacur for him without taking him to the vet? How in the world do you dose a baby that is only 3g? My husband switched jobs and I am car-less during the day now. I can't get him to the vet until Saturday. What do you think? He hasn't had a BM in two days but considering he isn't eating much, this doesn't surprise me. I have some Baytril here left over from my other dragons but I think we used that for the cocciddia infection. When Rocco did poo, it looked completely fine and didn't smell bad.
As always, thank you for all of the help. I'll try to get some new pics when I bathe him this morning.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[spikerocks]

Tracie, I just went over to your website and ordered the panacur. After I asked the question, I thought I remembered that your site sold it. I should have done expedited shipping tho. I didn't realize until after that I didn't change it. Ugh.

 

[sweetiepie9]

What kind of dose do you give for baby of 3g? I'll wish you the best. Tracie is the one to tell you how much & when, so hopefully this helps. Just make sure he keeps drinking drops of water & if you can, find Electrolytes for reptiles with Vit D3, you put a few drops in the water dish & so you give him bits when he drinks a few drop so water. Just so he doesn't get dehydrated by the panacur. It's a gentler medicine than Baytril and it works. All of them had paraside eggs during the summer. Some had 1 dose & some had 2 doses & they were stinky poop free after the 2nd dose. So they could brumate if they wanted to.

Make sure his basking area is hotter than normal, say 106F, the heat will help him alot. And you're keeping the night temp higher, too, I'd say at least 90F. So hopefully with all this it will help the little guy. As for running away from you, babies do that. So just present your hand in his tank & pick him up from behind. That might work better, that's what I did when Issy and Rubio were babies.

Let me know how little Rocco is doing & pm me anytime you want to vent, or whatever. After Roger passed, I realized that I had hardly any stress at home anymore; I didn't realize how difficult he'd become over the last 2 years, so it was a relief that he was out of pain & I could get on with my life. I feel so much better since I live alone and don't have any dependants (I don't recommend it, just for me due to circumstances beyond me.) At 56 I feel better, I'm taking things easier, getting things done when they need to be. It's a relief after raising Eric and keeping in touch with my family. Moving out here to BC was the best thing we ever did & I don't regret a moment of my time here. 24 years! Amazing how fast that went!

So take care,
get in touch when you can
Hugs
Deb

And just something for you to chuckle over, I'll introduce Rubio's glass dragon imaginary friend. He lives in the glass in Rubio's tank & in the patio door glass. So here they are, Rubio and his imaginary friend:

Hope that helps put some fun into your day. I always knew Rubio was special, I think his joy of life is what makes him so special. He finds a good thing in everything he does & he's a dragon clown, to boot. He's always bringing a smile to my face no matter how I feel. My dragons are what brought me through this past summer, they got me up every morning and gave me a purpose to continue on...and now I'm in a better space, so to speak.
Deb

 

[Drache613]

Hello!

I will get your Panacur sent out in the morning!
He is a tiny little thing, for sure.
How is he doing today?
Has he eaten anything for you?

Tracie

 

[spikerocks]

Hi Deb! Okay first let me say, Rubio's pics DID make me chuckle out loud! He is TOO funny! :lol: He is one handsome dragon and at over 800g, WOW! :shock:

I know exactly what you mean about the relief that comes when a loved one has been sick. I cared for my father for three years and was definitely depressed and overwhelmed by the end of the process. Although I still miss him desperately, watching his body fail was the hardest thing ever.

Tracie: Thanks for your help! I can't wait until the Panacur gets here to see if it helps. He is tiny for sure! I was told he was 10 days old when my son bought him but I'm not sure. If that were true, Rocco would be about 5 weeks now and should be bigger. I am hoping this isn't a case of bad genetics and he is just a peanut!

Rocco did show some small improvements yesterday. He was moving around his enclosure alot more than the few previous days and he took the baby food mixture twice. The previous day he only took it once. I even thought I saw him peek out of his eye at me for a split second!

I kept him nice and warm overnight. His lights came on just a bit ago but he was still snoozing peacefully. I'll get him out in about a half hour and try to feed him. Little Rocco is certainly getting very spoiled thru all of this. He wants to stay on my hand and will hug my finger and not let go! We tried to get a few pics last night. He's so tiny that it's hard to get a good one with my phone.

Bedtime snuggles:

I will definitely keep you ladies up to date on Rocco's status. Thank you for all of your help!

 

[sweetiepie9]

Just keep feeding him, as often as he'll lick off your fingers. It'll make a difference. As for his eyes? I have no idea. He looks healthy, he's got a cute little baby belly, but have no clue as to what's wrong with his eyes, poor baby. I know you were against it, but you really are a great beardie slave/mom/nurse. If anyone can bring him back to good health, you can! How'd he do today?
Hugs
Deb

 

[diablo1988]

ROCCO IS SUFFERING FROM ACUTE HATCHLING SYNDROME. IVE MADE THIS SAME MISTAKE ONCE BEFORE. UNFORTUNEATLY NOT A LOT YOU CAN DO. I HAD THIS HAPPEN WITH A SULCATTA TORTOISE AND A BEARDIE HATCHLING I RESCUED. VETS CANT REALLY DO A LOT EITHER. KEEP TRYIN TO FEED HIM THE BABY FOOD AND HOPE ROCCO PULLS THROUGH. IM SORRY TO HEAR THIS