The saga of Emmy continues... *sigh* *pics added

[Reven1337]

So, first she wouldnt eat and was stressed. Now she is not stressed and for 3 days took nothing but crickets. Now she is still not stressed but now she is back to needing baby food in a dropper.
I have a few concerns. She seems to have the runs which i believe is from the baby food (lotsa moisture). Is this true? do baby food fed dragons typically have the runs?

Second concern is kinda funny, me and her have come to an agreement, when it is time for baby food she opens her mouth wide and allows me to squirt sometimes a full milli-liter at a time in her mouth, sometimes i can ever get like 4+ milli-liters into her before she loses interest. I usually do this 2-3 times a day (but if she takes 3+ crickets i skip the baby food meal for that feeding). The concern with this is she always seems to be really bloated after im done. Is there such a thing as too much baby food? I use turkey and veg baby food with a pinch of calcium, a very small pinch of vitamins, crushed up beardie pellets (extra protien) and a little apple juice (organic) to make it runnier so i can pour it in her mouth easier.

The good news is that the baby food does seem to be having an effect as last week she shed 2 legs, and half her tail. This week the other half her tail changed color and her head is starting to shed as well. So she is growing, she is just a tad over 7inches at 4 months. Im doing everything i can to help her out, even neglecting my 12inch male of the same age (housed seperetly as of a month and a half ago). Her temps are 104-112 depending on the day, cool side is 81ish but she never goes over there anyway, shes content just basking and gaping her mouth all day to keep cool.

My g/f wants me to ask about her stub too. When she was young a clutch mate ate a cricket off Emmys hand... took the hand with it. she has a nub now that doesnt seem to bother her. My g/f thinks that maybe she doesnt hunt because it hurts her to run on the tile with the nub... any thoughts?

Sorry for the long post, times are tough so i cant afford a vet at the moment, thought id check with the real experts here first.
Thanks in advance,
Adam

 

[Claudiusx]

Yes the high moisture content in what you are giving her is probably causing the runs a lil bit. Now when you say runs, does her poop have a shape to it but its really wet, or is her poop just like a liquid? The baby food shouldn't be that bad to make her poop pure liquid.

Yes there is such a thing as too much food for beardies. Most beardies will stop eating when they are full but they can always be encouraged to eat more. I don't know how big your beardie is so I wouldn't know if your giving it too much. Id just stick with trying to make your beardie catch crickets.

Also if you want to aid your beardie in shedding (this also helps for making your beardie poop) is to let your beardie soak in some water for 15-20 minutes. Don't let the water go above your beardies shoulders.

Her stub arm might cause a little discomfort on the hard tile, im not too sure because I have never had a beardie like that. And that might be the reason your beardie isn't hunting around for the crickets, I'd never usually say this but sand might be better for your beardie, just to ease the pain that might be there with the stub. Just make sure your beardie isn't eating the sand.

 

[Reven1337]

The best way i can describe the consistancy is like the baby food she is eating, it is kinda the same color as well. I might even venture to say that she isnt digesting it properly but all she does is bask and her temps are 105+ all the time.

Yea the sand might not be a bad idea as she wont eat live feeders out of it anyway, and she doesnt walk around licking things like my male does... but i dont trust sand at all. Any other suggestion for substrate?

I think i can upload a couple pictures of her with her bloated belly and one of her stub. See if that will help anyone figure this out.

 

[Reven1337]

No one else? I really have tried everything to get this little girl healthy and eating right, i need some more opinions/suggestions, im at a loss.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Adam,

Great, you can go ahead & post a picture of her & her tank setup if you don't mind so I can see her setup.
As far as substrates go, it is a slight possibility that the tile could be hard for her to maneuver on with a stub for her hand, so you could get some non adhesive shelf liner, carpet, felt, or a soft furry rug to help her walk around better.
I am not a huge advocate of sand because it can harbor so much bacteria anyway, though alot of people use it I just don't think it stays very clean that's all.
What type of lighting do you use? What type & brand of UVB light do you use, a flourescent tube bulb or a compact/coil light? What type of basking light are you using, a colored light or a bright white light? How far are the lights placed from her?
Do you supplement calcium 5 times per week?
What type of thermometer do you use to measure the basking spot & the cooler area? A stick on type, a digital probe or a temp gun?
As far as food intake, if you are feeding her quite a bit of babyfood, she will not have the desire to want to eat on her own nearly as much. As a rule, to maintain weight, feed .5ml of food per 50 grams or 1ml per 100 grams. For a baby or dragon who needs to gain, you can increase to 1-2ml per 100 grams of bodyweight.
If she is having trouble catching her crickets, try putting them in the fridge for a short bit to slow them down so she can catch them better. Have you tried phoenix worms they might be a nice treat for her, as they are calcium loaded & small she would probably love them & wouldn't have to chase them.
Is her beard darkened at all, or not? If you feel she is not digesting properly, she could have parasites or worms. If you think that she has worms or parasites, we can discuss trying to deworm her safely with either panacur (medication) or parazap, a natural herbal alternative to meds which help "decrease" the numbers of worms & parasites effectively by expediting the excretion of them by eliminating them naturally. Basically it cleans out the GI tract & the colon contents which expels them, but does not kill them. So, either route is fine, just let me know which way you want to go & I can direct you from there.
Do you have any probiotics at home? If not, that may help out her tummy also with digestion. Try to find some non dairy soy yogurt, or acidophiliz either one which will help with the natural bacteria in their gut & aid in digestion.

Tracie

 

[Reven1337]

Ok so i got the pictures taken. As for her weight i dont have a scale that will measure that low, i might go pick one up though.
To answer the husbandry question:

UVB - Repti-Sun 10.0 (1 month old)
Temps taken with a thermometer with probe - Basking: 103 to 112, cool side: 79 to 85 (temps depend on the time of day and indoor room temps)
She is on porcelin or ceramic tile (i forget which)
She has a exo-terra 150 basking bulb.
She poops 3-4 times a day usually (i believe this is because of the moisture in the baby food)
Lights on at 10:30am and off at 11:30pm
She can get within 4 inches of the UVB but when she basks its about 6-8 inches away.
She is bathed about every 3 days (i dont think she is even close to dehydrated)
She is fed a mixture of turkey/veg baby food with a pinch of calcium, small pinch of herpivite, some bee pollen, and some apple juice. She gets about 6-8ml per day.
She is offered collard greens and crickets every day, but wont touch either of them.
If i have forgotten anything important let me know and ill get it posted asap.

Here is her Viv, i have simplified it so that she will have no problem seeing and catching the crickets, though it hasnt mattered as she watches them and even sometimes prones to pounce but never strikes them.

Next is 2 pictures of the stub.

and now a close up

Here is a pick of her bowel movement.

A pic of her back so u can see how she looks

I can haz fudz preez?

And this is just to show how white her belly is, no signs of stress which is why this is so puzzling.

And one of her tail nip, keep in mind she was aggrovated about being out of her cage so it might look a little darker than usual. But it has been like this since we got her 2 months ago and no sign of necrotic tissue or spreading.

Oh and Tracie you asked me in a PM where i got her, but i thought i would answer here so that if people have similar problems they can use this as a reference.
I got her from a local breeder called "The Dragon Lady" she has been breeding for a number of years as far as i know. I have been to her house and seen the setups that she has for breeding, she does a couple things that im not sure i agree with, sand, housing together (many adults in the same enclosure for breeding purposes). But all in all i know quite a few people who have dragons from her and they seem to be doing pretty well. She really cares about her dragons and i trust her, if that means anything.
Anyway if you have anymore questions of suggestions for me that would be great. I really want to get her eating bugs again because she isnt growing properly on this baby food diet. Not to mention it is incredibly time consuming (I am a college student) and i have home work and another dragon to care for.

Anyway thanks in advance
Adam

 

[protiemama]

What a pretty girl! It sounds like you are a great beardie slave already! Congratulations! :lol:
Try feeding her in a seperate smaller enclosure, I used a spare 10 gal. That way she doesnt have to run so far to catch crix. Put shelf liner on the bottom for grip. I even use a small fish net to herd crix if needed. :lol: Also you might want to try just droping a few bugs at a time.
Her viv looks kinda bare. If you are short of cash you can make a nice hide from a tissue box laid on its side,and put a soft cloth in the bottom to make it cozy. Bogie loved to snuggle into his box. If you find a good climbing branch in the yard, be sure to scrub it then bake it in the oven, to kill any bugs. Some dragons even have small stuffies in their vivs to cuddle. (And they DO cuddle them. Too cute!)
Poop doesn't look too bad to me. It's a bit moist but if you and get her on afew more live feeders that may work itself out. Be carful, they spoil easily and will expect their slave (You) to pamper them at all times. I am such a slave too.

Sandy H

 

[Reven1337]

Lol thanks for the reply.

I had a stuffed animal in there but the crickets were all hiding behind it, and she did even seem to notice it. All she does is bask with her mouth open almost all day, takes breaks once in a while to wander a foot away and then plunk her arse down and open her mouth again.

As for feeding her in another tank, we have a clear tote that i used to try and feed her in, all she would ever do is stand in the middle looking stressed for about 3 minutes then she would freak out and try and climb the walls to get out. We tried this for every feeding multiple times a day for probably about a week or so straight, but alas, no results.

The good news is i measured her again today and she is up to 8 inches (tail nip) and weighs 35grams. My male of equal age is 145grams and 11.75inches (also nipped tail).

Adam

 

[Claudiusx]

You should try to confine the basking spot to one side instead of in the middle, that way when your beardie gets too hot it can go cool down. Also I don't know if its because of your beardies stub but have you tried making a higher basking spot so your beardie can get closer to the heat as it needs?

 

[Reven1337]

The side under the heat lamp and the far side are both in the low 80s. The problem is she never thermo regulates anyway, she just basks. I did try adding a climbing point to get her closer to the smaller light (40 watt house bulb) it only reaches 90ish and when the log is in the tank she just climbs it and never leaves, regardless of her temps. At one point i did have it setup so that the top of the log was her basking spot at 105-110 but once again she never left it and at the time i was trying to encourage her to eat crickets so i ended up taking it out because they were on the ground and she wouldnt leave her perch. I attempted tonight to put her into a seperate tub to eat crickets... but she just tried to climb the wall for a good 10 minutes straight so i took her out and dropper fed her again.

And now my male (Vael) has the runs and is barely eating... this is getting to be a damn headache. I feel like there is nothing i can do that will please these dragons.

 

[protiemama]

Someone on here puts their crix in a corning ware bowl with slick sides. The crix can't jump out for some reason and her dragon can feed as he wishes with no escapees. If you sit her beside the bowl she might eat. :dontknow: I'll try to find that post again tomorrow. It's worth a try.
Have you tryed her on Phoenix worms? Most dragons can't resist them and they are naturally loaded with calcium. Also for greens try cilantro, Bogie would eat shreded cardboard if it was mixed with cilantro! :lol:

It isn't her little nub that is keeping her stationary. LG has no legs and runs all over. There are several others with various degrees of handicap and most of them even climb a bit. Is her tile maybe too slick for her to grip well? Maybe put a hand towel down and put her on it and see how she does. Heck, I'm running out of ideas. Tired I guess.
Just curious- How much do you have her out of the tank? Could she be bored? I dunno, I taking shots in the dark here. :dontknow: Maybe I'll think of something else tomorrow.

Sandy H

 

[Drache613]

Hello Adam,

How is she doing today?
The tank, overall, looks nice. The background is impressive & colorful. I would like to suggest a few things if I may.
The Reptisun 10 flourescent tube lights are the best tube lights you can get so that is excellent you are using 2 of them for her UVB. One thing is that they are mounted on the back of the tank which can make it hard for her to get the UVB's that she needs. We recommend mounting ALL UVB's directly overhead for a couple of reasons. The primary reason is that there is too much eye glare when it is low & to where they can look at the light too easily. The other reason is that the UVB's are refracting everywhere except for where they need to be which is down onto your dragon. A good way to direct the UVB's downward to be more beneficial is to get a dual flourescent tube bulb fixture which has reflective backing on it which helps direct the UVB's downward onto her.
Can you mount the flourescent tube bulbs overhead in a fixture? What type of top does the tank have?
Do you have 2 basking lights? I think that 1 basking light is plenty, at 150watts, you could safely move that down just a bit to get the temps in the optimal ranges. The basking light should be placed directly beside the UVB lights so she can bask & get her UVB's in one centralized area. If you feel you need more brightness in the tank using just 1 basking light, try using just a lower wattage regular household light on the other side.

Since she has a little nub, perhaps you could use carpet for half of the tank, while keeping tile on the other half. I would suggest getting some climbing apparatus for her such as a large log & wrap a piece of carpet or felt around it & secure it with small screws or tacs making sure there are no sharp edges. She is very capable of running & being active though. If she did not have any problems with the log previously you should put that back in as they love to climb up to bask. It is a natural thing for them to do.

The eating is hard. When was the last time that she ate crickets on her own? Perhaps try feeding her on a towel on the floor. Just take the back legs off to make it easier for her to catch them. If they are too fast for her, put them in the fridge for a few minutes just to slow them down a bit. I know you don't want her not to eat, but you will need to decrease the amount of babyfood you are feeding her. Otherwise, she wont be hungry enough to eat on her own anyway. When you put her in a plastic feeding bin, how many crickets did you put in there with her? If you put too many crickets in with her that will stress her out. Try putting just a few crickets in with her at a time to let her get them easier, & once she gets those put a few more in. Perhaps that will work?

She is very pretty, & appears healthy. Her stool looks normal, as well.

How often do you give calcium supplementation?

Tracie

 

[Reven1337]

She gets calcium everyday in her baby food.
I put a bunch of stuff in the tank for her to climb. I always knew she could, but alas im making no head way with getting her to eat real food. I went to the pet store the other day and got her 10 small silks and 10 butters (and 5 horns for my male). She wont touch the silks or butters... more wasted money.

I think im at the point where i need to find someone who has the patience to deal with a semi-retarded dragon. Thanks for all the help thus far, but i think im done with her.